Online content creation and self-promotion

[Heijan Xavier]

I've finished a novel and a few short stories. Sent them to a few agents, publishers, contests etc. The feedback gets better and better with each attempt but I have yet to get that first breakthrough.I'm confident it will come in time, but in the meantime...

I love Star Wars and want to make a or YouTube or TikTok channel with reviews and commentary, but is that a good idea?

Meaning: Is it worth it for one to create online content about existing properties in an attempt to build an online presence while one awaits that first publishing breakthrough? Or is it better to just keep working on one's own stories?

Meaning: If it's not well received, then one could have spent that precious time writing their next novel or story. If it is well received, does one become typecast as a YouTuber, thus subverting their own art?

In addition, I have two jobs and a busy young family, so my art and writing time is very limited.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

 

[Phyrebrat]

I’ve so many thoughts on this and will reply later as I’m about to start teaching.

TikTok writers zone is getting me between 400-700 hits per post.

More later

 

[Heijan Xavier]

I’ve so many thoughts on this and will reply later as I’m about to start teaching.

TikTok writers zone is getting me between 400-700 hits per post.

More later

OK thanks!

 

[Phyrebrat]

Okay, done shouting at kids

I've avoided TikTok for a decade or however long it's been up but when @Jo Zebedee mentioned the hashtag for booktok and instabook (instagram), I checked it out and saw that there is a huge community there.

Tiktok has limitations: you can't use music over 59 seconds long (altho sometimes you can and there's no rhyme or reason to it -- and it's not to do with © ) but if you're talking, then you're fine. Instagram will require you to chop up your video into 2 min (?) segments so I don't post my videos there, just my 75 worders.

Using the hashtag function on Tiktok is brilliant -- it also remembers the ones you've used before so you don't have to keep typing them out, and I'm getting far more views there than on my Beanwriting Twitter or Bluesky accounts. Twitter is largely unfit for purpose since Muskrat took over; you will never encounter a more retched hive of scum and villainy. Makes Mos Eisley look like Centre Parcs.

I also find the mutual follows really gets you noticed more. I've been usinf IG and Twit for over ten years but Tik for a year. I have have more engagement on TikTok in the first week than I have ever had in the lifetime of using Twit and IG.

But here's the thing. I'd recommend a branding. I developed Beanwriting, my logo, and website to reflect me and my love of gothic horror, and I have a USP. No-one else is doing what I'm doing there so when someone visits my page or post, if they like it, they tend to follow. The problem with Star Wars is the market is saturated with it, and it's becoing an ever harder sell nowadays because younger generations who use these platforms like they breathe air, can't be arsed with the toxic moaning by SW fans who hate the Disney stuff. Look at what is happening to the ultimate toxic fanboy, Star Wars Theory (who hates everything). Youtube have now removed his right to use advertisers (and therefore revenue) on some of his content as it is inappropriate with their own brand.

If you want to do SW, what will you do that's different? How will it support or inform your writing? Work that out and I think you'll be on a great path.

Don't forget that there are also events like Pitmad on Twit where you get a one line pitch and agents look at it. Not to mention the amount of authors, agents and pubbers who interact with you on social media.

Do you have a website?

 

[sknox]

I don't have any experience with the social media world, but Phyrebrat said something particularly germane about having one's own brand. That is crucial. If I have a site that's about techno-thrillers and there are a hundred other sites covering the same material, chances are a number of those sites already have that audience. So why would they start following me?

That's where the Star Wars comments are additionally relevant because the same logic applies.

Now, there's nothing at all wrong with writing into the mainstream. That's why the stream is main--plenty of people there--and you certainly could just concentrate on writing and submitting works. If you try to establish a "presence", and are writing mainstream, then look for something that would set you apart. I write techno-thrillers ... and I train badgers!

Maybe I follow you because I love badgers, stinking or otherwise, and maybe I'll give one of your free offers a go, just to see.

IOW, it would be writing + hook. (or hook + writing). But if both the writing and the hook are firmly in the mainstream, then you're competing with much bigger gorillas.

 

[Heijan Xavier]

If you want to do SW, what will you do that's different? How will it support or inform your writing? Work that out and I think you'll be on a great path.

Don't forget that there are also events like Pitmad on Twit where you get a one line pitch and agents look at it. Not to mention the amount of authors, agents and pubbers who interact with you on social media.

Do you have a website?

That's a lot of great insight. I write mostly "pre-apocalyptic" sci-fi, but I did just write a kind of gothic horror short story for Baen Books' fantasy story contest.

It seems that you would recommend having an engaging online presence, but one that focuses on my own work, and not a super-saturated community like Star Wars. Maybe I'll just keep Star Wars reviews in my blog so I don't have to get too cute.

I have a website nathanjessehoffman.com.

As far as branding, it's important to be very recognizable and clearly communicate what you're creating? If so, it's important to be pretty focused, and not have a bunch of little interests that are all over the map?

 

[Heijan Xavier]

Now, there's nothing at all wrong with writing into the mainstream. That's why the stream is main--plenty of people there--and you certainly could just concentrate on writing and submitting works. If you try to establish a "presence", and are writing mainstream, then look for something that would set you apart. I write techno-thrillers ... and I train badgers!

I gather from yours and Phyrebrat's comments, that it's better to focus on my own work and work towards connecting with readers who are interested in what I'm creating and build momentum from there.

Star Wars stuff can just be on the side as a blog or something, but it shouldn't be the main hook, especially now, as there's like a Star Wars civil war breaking out in the fandom.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I’m not on tik tok as an author but as the shop - I also no longer have a website as I really need to redo it - but I do own the domain JoZebedee.com do I might try to revive it.

I might also try some toks (?)out as my author self and see what occurs - although, honestly, after I crunch out IC2 I think I’ll be on a writing hiatus so maybe not. Food for thought tho

Just popped one up (on the shop account as opening a second one is challenging - but bookstore authors is a popular vibe)

Will report back

 

[Phyrebrat]

@Heijan Xavier — I tell you who has a very big following who’s more along the lines of what you’re thinking (I think) and that’s our very own @The Big Peat. His blog gets serious views and subscribers.

Maybe he can be more help. I’m no expert , just going by feel and what I’ve learnt over the last few years has given me the impression I wrote upthread.

And don’t forget it has to be fun. Or should be. If you want to do SW and your stuff then do it. But if you’re thinking in terms of engagement and great numbers, you might need to come up with an ‘angle’.

And you can change as you learn more. There is nothing to say you have to get it right first time.

The only thing is as I’m Gen X I don’t have this automatic almost alchemical understanding of social media the way Gen Z does. It means I have to work harder and do a bit more outside my comfort zone.

Cos god knows I hate hate hate the length of time it takes me to edit a video and post the hashtags. And also pretend to friends and engage with randos to attract views.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

@Heijan Xavier — I tell you who has a very big following who’s more along the lines of what you’re thinking (I think) and that’s our very own @The Big Peat. His blog gets serious views and subscribers.

Maybe he can be more help. I’m no expert , just going by feel and what I’ve learnt over the last few years has given me the impression I wrote upthread.

And don’t forget it has to be fun. Or should be. If you want to do SW and your stuff then do it. But if you’re thinking in terms of engagement and great numbers, you might need to come up with an ‘angle’.

And you can change as you learn more. There is nothing to say you have to get it right first time.

The only thing is as I’m Gen X I don’t have this automatic almost alchemical understanding of social media the way Gen Z does. It means I have to work harder and do a bit more outside my comfort zone.

Cos god knows I hate hate hate the length of time it takes me to edit a video and post the hashtags. And also pretend to friends and engage with randos to attract views.

Someone called me Toots this morning. Jeez. Engagement

 

[Culhwch]

I went along to a workshop my library recently hosted that was run by a local romance author, about the business of writing. She talked quite a bit about social media, and BookTok and Bookstagram in particular.

She mentioned that it's very difficult for established authors to create a successful brand through that particular medium, as it is more focused around reviewers and the reading community than it is around author accounts. What she said is happening more, though, is a crossover of reviewers who were already writers, but gained their following through reviewing, getting published and becoming successful authors. So it's not a bad way to get your foot in the door, if you have the energy and personality to do it, but you've got to really establish that following - and that feels like a lot of hard work for a tired old man like me...

 

[Phyrebrat]

Someone called me Toots this morning. Jeez. Engagement

What you want me to actually call you by your real name? I’ve been reading Gatsby and Big Easy. I’ve turned into a noir Bean

 

[Heijan Xavier]

The only thing is as I’m Gen X I don’t have this automatic almost alchemical understanding of social media the way Gen Z does. It means I have to work harder and do a bit more outside my comfort zone.

Cos god knows I hate hate hate the length of time it takes me to edit a video and post the hashtags. And also pretend to friends and engage with randos to attract views.

Yeah, me too. So much of the self-promotion does not come naturally to me.

 

[Heijan Xavier]

She mentioned that it's very difficult for established authors to create a successful brand through that particular medium, as it is more focused around reviewers and the reading community than it is around author accounts. What she said is happening more, though, is a crossover of reviewers who were already writers, but gained their following through reviewing, getting published and becoming successful authors. So it's not a bad way to get your foot in the door, if you have the energy and personality to do it, but you've got to really establish that following - and that feels like a lot of hard work for a tired old man like me...

The energy and time factor is the challenge. I have two jobs and a busy family. Only about an hour a day to write, draw, film, edit etc. I want to make sure my time is spent most effectively.

 

[Heijan Xavier]

I’m not on tik tok as an author but as the shop - I also no longer have a website as I really need to redo it - but I do own the domain JoZebedee.com do I might try to revive it.

I might also try some toks (?)out as my author self and see what occurs - although, honestly, after I crunch out IC2 I think I’ll be on a writing hiatus so maybe not. Food for thought tho

Just popped one up (on the shop account as opening a second one is challenging - but bookstore authors is a popular vibe)

Will report back

Thanks. I will check out booktok to see what's out there.

 

[Heijan Xavier]

@Heijan Xavier — I tell you who has a very big following who’s more along the lines of what you’re thinking (I think) and that’s our very own @The Big Peat. His blog gets serious views and subscribers.

Maybe he can be more help. I’m no expert , just going by feel and what I’ve learnt over the last few years has given me the impression I wrote upthread.

I'll have to reach out to him. Thanks.

 

[The Big Peat]

Ah, I get okay numbers for a one man band blog. Nothing special.

And I have no idea whether it'd work out as anything should I get published. Yeah, a few people know my name, a few reviewers would want to do right by me because we're friends... it's not like agents are reaching out because of my profile or anything.

Booktok and bookstagram do better than blogs for publicity and that's a fact. But well enough? I think Daniel Greene, who does Booktube very well, got a publishing deal recently-ish but I never heard anything about the stories which I think says a bunch.

I think my conclusion would be that as a way of raising author profile, writing thoughtful things is kind of lousy. Jo Walton's What Makes This Book Great is great, but I don't hear a bunch of people talking about Jo Walton. RJ Barker posting weird stuff and taxidermy on twitter is a better publicity gambit. If you enjoy it and have time why not, but if you're crunched for time, well...

 

[Brian G Turner]

I love Star Wars and want to make a or YouTube or TikTok channel with reviews and commentary, but is that a good idea?

Only if you want to be known as a Star Wars commentator. As a writer it's not useful to you because it's not a targeted audience - these people want Star Wars content, and are not interested in anything else such as your own writing.

 

[HareBrain]

What she said is happening more, though, is a crossover of reviewers who were already writers, but gained their following through reviewing, getting published and becoming successful authors.

I follow some of these on YouTube, and I often wondered about the "conversion rate" from YouTube follower to book reader. I looked up one book, wasn't that impressed with what I saw, and never bothered checking out any others, but maybe I'm not typical. I think a lot of people buy books on the basis of some kind of recognition (they've heard of the author, their friends have mentioned it) so it might be a good strategy.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I follow some of these on YouTube, and I often wondered about the "conversion rate" from YouTube follower to book reader. I looked up one book, wasn't that impressed with what I saw, and never bothered checking out any others, but maybe I'm not typical. I think a lot of people buy books on the basis of some kind of recognition (they've heard of the author, their friends have mentioned it) so it might be a good strategy.

I think it can work if you have a very large base and many connections to begin with. Daniel Greene, for example, has about 550k subscribers on Youtube, is well known in fantasy and SF Booktube and is now on his third book. I don't know his sales numbers, but if you have that number of subs, even a small percentage of those buying your book is going to give you a good number. He has also gone along the lines of many others and published versions of his books via crowdfunding, which all seem to be sold to 100%. (He is also going towards trad publishing - first book was self-pubbed. Second was via a small indie and for his third I believe he's going through the trad process. So there is a definite progression there.)

However it still depends on the quality of the writing. You can equally abuse your subs by producing a bad book. Some names spring to mind, but I shan't say.

I think the worst though are writers who start a youtube channel with 'how to write' content/ reviews, who eventually produce a novel (usually with videos going through the 'journey' - it's content, no?) and it completely bombs, because it is bad and doesn't even take their own advice, and hence wipes out their channel at the same time. Seen loads of these types of channels.

The problem of course is that if you think getting subs on a social media channel is required, then you are adding extra work - time and effort that could be used for writing - and the more subs you have the more time you'll need to put aside to 'feed' them.

Furthermore if it's blatant that the social media channel is really just being used as a sales channel, that will put many off you - me included. You should have a clear and concise idea of what your social media represents and grow it organically along those lines. Perhaps eventually you could sell your work via the channel if you are lucky, but beware the pitfalls.

I have my own idea on a social media channel, but I'm not telling anyone here what the idea is. Can't have loads of people doing the same thing and taking away the shine on mine...