Georgian Fantasy Opening -- Take Two

The Judge

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After Phyrebrat honoured Ancient Tradition last month by resurrecting the thousand-post Critique extract, I thought I'd better follow suit with this, my 15,000th post.

I'm also resurrecting something, but in my case a piece I put up for Critique some 6+ years ago. The structure didn't work then, and I'm hoping the current iteration might provide better flow and more onward progression -- basically as well as doing some tweaking after taking on board comments made here, I've chopped up two POVs into separate pieces and alternated them.

By way of Introduction (which I'd hope any blurb on the back cover would make clear) this is a fantasy-detective set in Georgian England somewhere between 1760 and 1790 -- when I've decided exactly what socio-political or world events would be best as a background -- but with a twist of alternative history. In 54 BC a concord was reached between British-Celtic female druids and Rome’s Vestal Virgins in order to preserve some of their powers and magical relics against the storm winds of Christianity which they had already seen would batter them. That eventually led to the creation of the Collegium of Drya Vestals which some 1400 years later is regarded as a quaint anachronism by most people, with Vestals being wheeled out at important state and civic occasions. Despite adhering in public to whatever religious sensibilities were uppermost over the centuries, the Collegium has never lost sight of its pagan roots, but its wood-magic remains a secret, though senior Vestals are now permitted to perform ceremonies for private individuals, which is why one of them is here.

~~~~~

Whispers reach Oak-Rose as she stands at the window gazing out onto the trees. Furtive, excited whispers; frissons of delighted shock.​
“Is that really her? The Vestal?”
“Who else would ever wear the stola?”
“And not even any stays underneath!”
Women’s whispers. Thin needles of electrification charging the air in the room.​
“Gracious, she’s so very tall.”
“And so very black.”
Muffled whispers. Spilling from pale, painted faces, concealed behind fans of vellum and ivory, lace and mother-of-pearl.​
“Do you think she was a slave?”
“Slave or servant, how is it possible she could become a Vestal?”
Wasp whispers, darting ever closer. Stinging.​
“Whatever was the Collegium thinking, sending a savage here to conduct the ceremony?”
Each sting draws fresh blood, ignites flames of loathing in her breast.​
She resists the compulsion to turn, to confront the whispers. She only moves her gaze, raising her eyes from the alders and willows trembling at the edge of the distant lake, to the oaks and sycamores sweeping down to the slighted ruins of the old castle beyond, seeking their stability, their reassurance.​
But what was the Chief Vestal thinking, sending her here to this nest of rich, pampered, privileged insects?​
*​
I should have been threading my way through the crowd, greeting, smiling, playing the role ordained for me, the mousy Miss Artemisia Barrington, not quite lady of the house, not quite housekeeper. And my part should have been enacted not in the cramped confines of the library, but in the great drawing room, where much of the furniture had been removed in order to cope with the numbers, for Admiral Gray had invited much of the county to witness the ceremony for the old tree. Yet the crush in the room and my failure of duty were all too soon the least of my concerns.​
Our being in the library and not the drawing room was due to the Drya Vestal herself. Immediately after arriving she had stalked through each of the rooms on the piano nobile in turn, paying no heed to the new and expensive furnishings the Admiral had purchased, interested only in the views commanded from the windows. When she reached the library, she could not be persuaded to move further.​
Curiosity undoubtedly brought the Admiral’s guests to the room, a rare chance to be close to the embodiment of ancient custom and venerable rites, as the Admiral had phrased it in his invitations; a living link to Celtic druids and Caesar’s Rome. Yet it must have been more than curiosity which kept them there in the over-heated crush. Something in her presence surely held them, overriding their sense of decorum, as it did mine. I had met eminent women before, for until his final illness Great-Uncle Thomas had entertained widely, yet whatever power those women possessed came from their father’s rank or their husband’s wealth. Lady Oak-Rose was power incarnate. I was transfixed.​
*​
Beneath the women’s whispers, a drone hum rumbles around Oak-Rose, male voices spewing from faces the colour of meat – beef-bloody, pork-slabbed. Their tones not muffled by fashion, but pitched low, lip service paid to her status.​
“Don’t mind her colour meself, served in the Indies after all, but thought she’d be a damned sight more womanly.”
“One hears stories about their Sacred Grove. Unnatural practices of a carnal nature. Scurrilous, no doubt. Yet one cannot help wondering what befalls there. So many women without male control.”
More stinging pain pierces her, more flames of hatred rise. Her expression remains blank as she stares through the window, but the fire in her soul crackles and spits, like green pine ablaze – thirty years in the Order providing the appearance of composure but never yet the reality.​
Still the powdered, periwigged drones rumble on.​
“All this for a blasted tree. In this day and age. Ludicrous superstition.”
“Gray’s a sailor. They’re superstitious to a man.”
“It’s pagan heresy. The whole diabolic cult should be extirpated, the false temple and its trees destroyed, the women and their credulous supporters subject to penalties as with the Papists.”
Discipline tells her to remain aloof, impervious, but her heart yearns for retribution, to show the parasites her power. The Amici hear. As ever, oak responds first – beams above, floorboards beneath, shivering at her call. With them, she could destroy the whole swarm of insects. The satinwood chairs, the mahogany desk and longcase clock, the sycamore bookcases, all quiver, waiting to be used; the walnut stock of a fowling piece above the mantel thirsts for blood. Even the birch spills, shuffling in a vase over the fireplace, are eager for her word.​
Discipline holds. She compels her mind to calm, quietens the Amici.​
Then among the waspish, droning buzz, a hornet.​
*​
My lack of propriety went unnoticed, the women too absorbed in their spiteful gossip, the men with their offensive remarks. Then the Reverend Mr Eliot spoke, an intelligent, gracious man, moderate in all things save his dislike of Catholics and Dissenters, and, as it appeared, the Collegium of the Drya Vestals. He had, I knew, already spoken to the Admiral setting out his objections to the ceremony for the tree, so I was a little surprised at his agreeing to attend, but I was unable to listen to his further comments since I was then distracted.​
The distraction came – I can scarce write this without thinking how absurd it must sound – as the room shuddered. No volumes shifted in the bookcases, the many paintings – ships, ships and more ships by mediocre artists, and one exquisite Canaletto – moved not one hair’s breadth on the walls, the fragile porcelain lids of the Chinese jars upon the mantelpiece made no sound, yet the sensation was as palpable to me as though the earth quaked beneath us. No one but I appeared to notice, however, for the talk continued uninterrupted.​
Then Mr Edgar Wilson appeared. His remarks ended the gossip as the room’s convulsions had not.​
*​
“Egad, but she’s ugly!” The hornet’s voice is loud, imperious, lordly in its own conceit. “Sure it ain’t a man in disguise? Ought we to look, see if there’s a pizzle under all that outlandish clothing?”​
Ridiculous vapours issue from the wasps, vapid reproaches from the drones. Oak-Rose pays no attention to them. The blaze of anger has flared higher, so damping down the flames takes more effort. She succeeds, but broods on retribution.​
What if she were to avenge herself? Not on all the insects, merely on one? Covertly, so her powers remain concealed as required by the Order? Which of the Amici could she use? Oak would be too dangerous. Satinwood, mahogany, sycamore, all too large, too obvious. Walnut, still too overt. Birch spills, too weak.​
There. A fan wielded close to the hornet. The fan’s guards are stained and lacquered to resemble costly tortoiseshell, but beneath the paint is plain cheap deal. The slivers of pine tremble under the touch of her mind, releasing their long-forgotten memories of life – cold wind blowing from the mountains, the cry of eagles, the howl of wolf and skitter of deer, the companionship of resin-scented brothers stretching mile after mile over the Scottish uplands. Majesty reduced to a lying painted trinket in a fat woman’s hand.​
Laughter spurts from the hornet. “Face like that, black as my horse to boot, no surprise she’s a Virgin, eh, for who would want to ride her?”​
With an eruption of fire, discipline is overwhelmed. The pine heeds her call. The fan tears itself from the woman’s grasp, flings itself at the hornet’s face.​
There’s a scream of pain and a clatter as the bloodied fan drops to the floor.​
She doesn’t move, doesn’t shift her gaze from the patient trees, doesn’t allow her expression to alter, but in her heart Oak-Rose laughs.​
*​
At Mr Wilson’s licentious remarks, several ladies felt it necessary to enjoy an attack of the vapours, recalling me to my duty. I sent a footman for sal volatile and feathers to burn, while some gentlemen provided aid to the vaporous by assisting them to the window seats. Others reproved Mr Wilson. Whether they would have extracted the apology demanded of him, I cannot say, for a second strange incident then occurred. Old Mrs Browning hurled her fan at him, cutting open his cheek.​
I was dealing with the aftermath of this assault – not least endeavouring to comfort Mrs Browning who was in tears, claiming the fan had flown from her grasp – when the Admiral’s nephew, Mr Harker, appeared at my side.​
“Have you seen the Admiral, Miss Barrington? It is surely time for us to think of commencing the buffet luncheon.”​
Mortified at this further dereliction of my duty – for I was charged with the arrangements for the meal – I was about to reply that I had not seen him for some half an hour, when a piercing scream came from outside.​
The Admiral had been found. His body, that is.​
 
(I hesitated to write this as it is supremely unhelpful, but I realized that I am a chrons member like anyone else, and perhaps my speck of data will be useful after all even though it is a directionless negative: Didn't like it but don't have ideas on how to make it better)

I'm reasonably interested in murder-mysteries. I used to read a lot of Agatha Christie in my youth, and I have recently started up with le Carre. The thing that draws me to murder mysteries is the descriptions of the actions of the various characters involved, the dialog during interviews and things like that. To a certain extent, the murder-mysteries I enjoy read like a bunch of gossip (and indeed, some of the discreet snooping that our gentleman/lady detectives do is a bit of plugging into the local gossip). Sherlock Holmes is slightly different (more action, I think, and a bit of Sherlock solving the mystery off page, which I find less satisfying these days)

It's very likely, however, that I am not the audience for your story because I began to skim after the first three paragraphs. I don't think these aspects of the classic murder-mystery were present in this opening and I could not sink my teeth into it.
 
Well, it's not for me, but that's not to say that it doesn't work or that it's bad. Regency/Jane Austen stuff has no appeal to me - I found Persuasion incredibly dull. That aside:

It feels very Issues-ish, if that's a word: we are immediately and very obviously doing Race and Gender and maybe Class too. I've no objection to such themes, but it feels extremely on the nose. But perhaps this is an especially issues-ish part of the story. To put it bluntly, I don't know how heavy readers of such a novel would like their worthiness to be.

(There is a broader question of what the knock-on effects of magic would be on society. As far as I can see, people are oppressed when they lack the power to fight back effectively. It's much harder to persecute witches when they can literally zap you, and such literal zapping would raise broader religious questions. But that's probably for elsewhere and you've probably got answers good enough to make the book work.)

I think the writing is good and suits the style that you're going for quite well. It's clearly not the vernacular, but it's so wordy as to be turgid or unclear. Sorry not to be more help!
 
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I find the story interesting and engaging. I'm intrigued by the multiple POVs where one is first person and the others third person. Its a little jarring at first and I'm not sure if I could get used to it.
 
Thanks, both. Yes, very helpful.

Knowing who doesn't like something and why is important, msstice, so I'm glad you did respond with your thoughts.

I recall your raising the Race & Gender issue when this first appeared, Toby, and when I was revising the piece there were a couple of places which I debated removing to try and make it less obtrusive, and one will almost certainly go if I do proceed with it. I think "issues" stories sell nowadays, though -- they certainly appear to be on the increase in things I'm reading. (Though whether I'll be excused writing a black person when I'm white is another matter...)

The wood-magic is secret, with the Collegium trying to steer events quietly behind the scenes, so fortunately for me I don't have to worry about its effects on society! (Precognition being such a helpful power in avoiding persecution, there have been no real attempts against the Vestals, though Mary Tudor was considering treating them as heretics before she so conveniently died without disinheriting Elizabeth, who became The Great Vestal, hence the famour Sieve Portrait.)


EDIT: Thanks, Christine -- you popped in just as I was typing the above. Artemisia's diary/memoir is going to be the main storyteller here, with the third person POV from Oak-Rose only coming in occasionally, so with luck it shouldn't be too disruptive in later chapters.
 
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I found the POV switches confusing; there is a lot of them for this short piece and the first time it went to the first person narrator, I had assumed that this was Oak Rose thinking, then I did figure out it was someone else, but don't have a clear idea of who she is. Some of that confusion might come from this being an excerpt.
 
I like the conceit and setting but the structure and specifics left me confused: how many character POV's are there in the opening? 2, 3 or 4? I'm inferring 2 -- there's the omniscient 3rd person drya vestal narrating actions as they occur and the 1st person epistolary (?) in-society POV narrating actions long after the fact as she is writing them/telling another character.

The interplay between This Is Happening / This Happened is jarring, but can be very effective, but the combination of that plus different POV's plus deep stylistic changes between the POV's left me struggling and re-reading sections.

Based on your comment earlier today about the diary being the main POV, establishing that as the MC voice from the start might be helpful? It grounds the reader in, This is the beat, and then playing off of that with Oak-Rose provides the harmony.

I'll also add that Oak-Rose as 3rd person omniscient when the POV is her thoughts is odd? She's listening to speech and gossip throughout the room like she is standing next to each individual, but her actual thoughts feel at arm's length. The distance works when she's discussing the pine--the wolf's howl and resin brothers, etc--because that feels like she's losing herself in the greater symphony of forests, but the avenging herself and remaining concealed? It feels too far away from her.

Specifically, I don't know how experienced, mature, comfortable in her own skin Oak-Rose is or is not. She's annoyed. She's curious why she, and not another, is there. She knows the rules and wood types. But she doesn't feel cloaked in power or uncertain. Is she curious why she's there because this is new to her? Because she normally does different things for the order? Because this is beneath her? That I'm left wanting more is good--up to a point. I need more basis for understanding who she is and why her being here matters to the character.

One bit of content that jumped out at me was Mr Edgar Wilson. Artemsia describes him as this respected, kind, gentle man who only dislikes two classifications of people and then he shows up like a drunkard in a pub with an 'elo 'elo 'elo, drops an "ain't", a dick joke and then a sex joke. Fully accepting there may be reasons he's acting out of character, this was a jarring departure from expectation and only remarked upon after the fact -- when he walks in and asks about checking for a pizzle, no one is scandalized or reacts with gasps or disgust. Yes, this happens later, but in a high society event, it feels off that no one brays with uncomfortable laughter or produces a handkerchief and a, You forget yourself, sir!
 
Thanks, both. Plenty to consider there about the structure and the possibility of confusion. Not sure how best to avoid that when I've shown differences both in POV (third & first person) and tense (present and past) to try and distinguish them, but I'll have another think.

Just one small point, ColGray, you've confused the Reverend Mr Eliot (the local rector who is polite, if intractable on the issue of Dissenters etc) with Mr Edgar Wilson who is the foul-mouthed buffoon who gets his comeuppance.** Names are only placeholders for the moment, so I'll have a think as to whether giving the rector a more impressive name might help avoid anyone else becoming confused there. And there is instant reaction as to the "pizzle" joke -- I specifically note the "ridiculous vapours" and "vapid reproaches" -- but it seems that needs to be made clearer that it is a reaction to what's said.


** a case of the fan hits the sh*t...
 
Ah, yep, you're right and I confused the two -- sorry!

Do you need to ping pong as your opening? Is there a way to focus on one POV (my gut says Artemesia) narrating the entire scene and then doing a recall back to Oak-Rose later where she's relating what happened to another or remembering it or communing about it?

The Oak-Rose POV is good and I like that she's an outsider with immense power working to contain herself in the face of slights and insults, but repeated switches in POV as the opening is very hard because the reader is not yet grounded in which POV/Who is the story.
 
I tried doing the POVs one after the other in my original version, but that was also unsatisfactory as the story progression stopped dead since the second POV was simply repeating the scene. I'd like to keep Oak-Rose's POV here, since what actually happened with the wood-magic simply won't come out otherwise (Artemisia won't know about the Vestals' powers for some considerable time, if at all, and O-R won't ever disclose what went on here.)

So, back to the drawing board! (Or more likely this whole idea is back into the virtual trunk under the bed.)
 
If this isn't helpful/you're looking for empathy and not suggestions, just let me know and I'll stop.

Could you come at it from a reproachment/self-recrimination angle?

Chapter1: Artemisia POV's the opening and that there's a dead body.
Chapter 2: O-R beating herself up for giving in to temptation while doing something else that moves the plot forward a smidge or has her doing something relevant to the following scene/action.

Trying to think of a good example and the one that keeps circling is from mid/late in Silence of the Lambs. Jack is the POV and he pulls some files and has a conversation where he's defending Starling, but only a bit and Starling is there but says little. Next chapter, Starling is back in the dorms and doing laundry and beating herself up for not saying something to Jack in the moment and gets back to reading the files. We get to the experience the scene twice, but from different POV's and, more important than the POV, with different motivations and characterizations.
 
Suggestions always welcome. Even when the ideas aren't feasible due to characterisation/plot (and O-R isn't the type to reproach herself) it's always possible they might spark something at a different angle (O-R is the type of person to review the incident with some satisfaction).

At present I'm toying with the idea of calling O-R's POV scene a Prologue, then introducing Artemisia in more depth, since clearly the passive-aggressive "role ordained for me" and "not quite lady of the house, not quite housekeeper" wasn't enough to interest people as to her exact status in the Admiral's household.
 
I vaguely remember this, but not enough to tell what's changed. I seem to recall having trouble with it last time, but I do like this one. The POV switch (not just character, but also person and tense, a triple-whammy) works in this scene, but if this were a book I'd picked off a shelf, I'd be flicking ahead to see what the structure was going to be throughout and how many other POVs (if any) there were. I can well believe, however, that switching so early in itself might put off quite a few readers, which would be a shame.

I can't say that any of the gossip/comments felt unrealistic, but I think Toby's right that their presentation felt a bit on the nose. It feels a bit stagey, which I didn't much mind, and kind of fits the Georgian setting, but might not be the best way of starting it. And Mr Wilson feels a bit like he was actually shoved onto a stage and given his lines to provoke a particular effect.

(BTW, I shared ColGray's confusion between the Rev Eliot and Edgar Wilson. In our defence, the names do contain several of the same letters.)

This probably comes as no surprise, but I'm really interested in the Drya-Vestal idea and the wood magic. That for me is far more of a pull than a possible murder mystery.

Are you planning to include something like this text at the start? (I assume not the back cover, given its detail.) I think that might help.

In 54 BC a concord was reached between British-Celtic female druids and Rome’s Vestal Virgins in order to preserve some of their powers and magical relics against the storm winds of Christianity which they had already seen would batter them. That eventually led to the creation of the Collegium of Drya Vestals which some 1400 years later is regarded as a quaint anachronism by most people, with Vestals being wheeled out at important state and civic occasions. Despite adhering in public to whatever religious sensibilities were uppermost over the centuries, the Collegium has never lost sight of its pagan roots, but its wood-magic remains a secret, though senior Vestals are now permitted to perform ceremonies for private individuals, which is why one of them is here.
 
So, back to the drawing board! (Or more likely this whole idea is back into the virtual trunk under the bed.)

Well I certainly wouldn't give up on this, because the premise is very interesting and the writing is good.

I think it raises a question of how writers write a good story in an oppressive setting (to be clear, I specifically don't want to do the "Who can write about what?" argument here). Personally, I feel that, in the UK of 2024, if a story only says "the slaves on the plantation had miserable lives" or "Georgian* women had no rights", those are so obvious that there needs to be something more, some extra element to make it feel interesting as a story ("Will Offred escape?" etc). However, I could foresee a time (such as the dystopia that so many people now seem to want to inhabit) where the restating of those obvious points would be novel and necessary (and risky). So it's a difficult balancing act.

(*The Georgian, specifically Jane Austenish, period is a particularly odd one, as although women had pretty wretched lives, the dances-and-ballgowns stereotype is so fetishised, largely thanks to romance novels by and for women.)

There's also a setup in some stories where, basically, someone says to the hero "You can't do this/join us/have nice things because you are X", and then the hero proves them wrong and joins/rules/rejects them impressively. I don't think that's happening here, but I was slightly wary that it was.

All of which probably sounds much harsher than I mean it to be.
 
Thanks, both!

This probably comes as no surprise, but I'm really interested in the Drya-Vestal idea and the wood magic. That for me is far more of a pull than a possible murder mystery.
But I've no plot with just the wood magic, so you'll have to put up with the murder!

Are you planning to include something like this text at the start? (I assume not the back cover, given its detail.) I think that might help.
I'd half wondered about one of those bits at the chapter heading which quotes from an in-world book eg "A HIstory of the Drya Vestals by Professor XYZ" or some such, but it is such a fantasy cliche and I don't know that anyone ever bothers actually reading them!

I'd also considered a short prologue with a female druid meeting a Vestal on the stony beach at Walmer among the Roman camp where they foresee what will happen to their respective cults (Julius Caesar owes the Vestals since they saved him from Sulla, so he's brought the Vestal with him) but if I go the prologue route with Oak-Rose, that washes that out.


Well I certainly wouldn't give up on this, because the premise is very interesting and the writing is good.
Thank you, that's very kind, especially as it's not your cup of tea!

I think it raises a question of how writers write a good story in an oppressive setting ... Personally, I feel that, in the UK of 2024, if a story only says "the slaves on the plantation had miserable lives" or "Georgian* women had no rights", those are so obvious that there needs to be something more, some extra element to make it feel interesting as a story
I agree with you, and when it comes to the issue of slavery, only the wilfully blind could have any illusions about how terrible it must have been. On the issue of women's rights in the C18th, though, I would guess the vast majority of people, even women, have absolutely no idea what the situation really was, not least, as you say, because of Austenmania and the like. But it's another century before we get the Married Women's Property Act, 150 years before a woman can get a divorce on the same terms as a man and two centuries before a man can be convicted of raping his wife. Frankly, if we can get that message across (and without being political, certain groups seem all too intent on turning the clock back) then that's good enough for me! (I also wonder if modern readers, particularly younger ones, need to be spoon-fed a little.)

There's also a setup in some stories where, basically, someone says to the hero "You can't do this/join us/have nice things because you are X", and then the hero proves them wrong and joins/rules/rejects them impressively. I don't think that's happening here, but I was slightly wary that it was.
No, you're right, that isn't happening here, because when it comes down to it, this isn't O-R's story, since she has no story arc at all, but Artemisia's.

All of which probably sounds much harsher than I mean it to be.
Not at all!
 
How can there have been a concord against Christianity in 54BC? Is there a developmental stage you haven’t mentioned, perhaps. Or the initial understanding was based on preserving a degree of female empowerment in the face of impending cultural imperialism - no irony or sarcasm intended given the Roman policy of co-opting local religious practices and diverting them towards the established pantheon. I’m just writing off the cuff here...
 
My impression is that (a) the Georgian period was the worst that England has ever been, the middle ages included, and (b) before about 1950, human life of any sort had very little inherent value whatsoever. Beat your wife, kids and servants, sell some slaves, annex Scotland, work some paupers to death in a mill, march another squad of conscripts toward the enemy guns - whoever you were, if you could get away with it, you probably did it and had a fun time doing so.

The problem is that while these stories remain true, they also become cliched ("But she persisted" etc). It becomes necessary to tell them, both to be honest and also for political reasons, but they have to be told in fresh ways, and that's really tricky. I don't know how you get around it, other than good writing.

"A HIstory of the Drya Vestals by Professor XYZ"

I wonder if profs. Running Dog and Piexoto are available?
 
How can there have been a concord against Christianity in 54BC? Is there a developmental stage you haven’t mentioned, perhaps. Or the initial understanding was based on preserving a degree of female empowerment in the face of impending cultural imperialism - no irony or sarcasm intended given the Roman policy of co-opting local religious practices and diverting them towards the established pantheon. I’m just writing off the cuff here...
Yes, I wondered if anyone would question the date!

Basically, divination/precognition. Caesar has already tried one invasion, so the druids don't need much foretelling to know he'll be back, and they want to find a way of preserving themselves and their magic, while the Vestals have foreseen a new religion arising which will eventually destroy them, with the risk of the sacred palladium being lost (which both protects Rome and provides the Vestals with their powers) though they don't know when that will happen. So they co-operate for the next few hundred years, effectively waiting, with the druids taking on more aspects of the Vestal cult. By the time Theodosius extinguishes the sacred fire in Rome, the Vestals have smuggled the palladium out to the Collegium where it's still preserved. (And barely 20 years later Rome falls to the Vizigoths!)
 
Ah-ha! I just knew you’d have the backstory worked out (it being you)...
 

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