Yet another depressing article involving SFF publishing

[Montero]

Becky Chambers is a flippin' wizard with constructing, growing and centering friendship vs romance. It is the backbone of her storytelling and there's never a point where I'm wondering, When is this going to trip over into romance, because she treats friendship (between and across M/F/Robot/Clone/Alien/?? and M/F/Robot/Clone/Alien/??) as a worthy goal in and of itself. Friendship isn't treated as the prelude to the "real" story (i.e.: romance); it is the story.

Thank you, that is a perfect way to put it regarding romance and friendship. Friendship can be more enduring than romance too, and it is nice to have it front and centre, and not the MC having a romance and talking about it to friends.

 

[clarissajaneen]

I actually brought up this discussion in my literature class this past week where we were asked to discuss current issues in genre fiction. The professor linked this article which describes how movies have become less "steamy" and that we've adopted a kind of puritanical approach to our popular media (and pop-fic/genre fic!) because we have so few moral choices left to us in late-stage capitalism. He then linked another article which says that others have made similar comments regarding the MCU, where "everyone is beautiful and no one is horny." The professor then delved into the idea of whether "pornography" and "literature" are distinct and suggested that from a genre lens, we might say that they serve different functions; pornography being purely functional around literal arousal, erotica having that be partly subject matter while also trying to execute on different fronts.

Another classmate quoted a professor she'd had for a Romance fiction class who'd said that books written by women FOR women are almost universally "yucked" and looked down on, despite Romance books consistently selling very well. She described how this has to do with misogyny and the idea that "women's stuff" isn't of consequence (women's work, women's roles in society, women's literature, women's sex drives, etc.) and that it involves a lot of slut-shaming as well. The student then went on to say: "I think that anyone who is "afraid porn will make it harder to find books they like" are more worried about the fact that women are enjoying books, rather than worrying that people are going to stop writing books about dudes slaying dragons. There will ALWAYS be dudes slaying dragons. Women having sex with dragons? Well, that might be here to stay as well."

 

[HareBrain]

The student then went on to say: "I think that anyone who is "afraid porn will make it harder to find books they like" are more worried about the fact that women are enjoying books, rather than worrying that people are going to stop writing books about dudes slaying dragons.

That doesn't seem likely, except in certain regressive circles. I think it's just the same as cinemagoers who don't like superhero movies, or YA readers who can't stand first-person present, or some anime fans during the recent isekai glut. If publishers become heavily focused on one currently successful sub-genre you don't have a taste for yourself, there tends to be less choice of new books (at least visible on bookshop shelves) in those you do. Not no choice, but less. And I think it generates a fear, whether founded or not, that the trend will only increase and the market become very one-sided.

 

[Brian G Turner]

how movies have become less "steamy"

Are they?? I see visual in media in general trying to be much more pornographic these days. Game of Thrones showed it could work to large appeal.

the MCU, where "everyone is beautiful and no one is horny."

It's a family show - the target age for Marvel comics was 12.

 

[Swank]

Another classmate quoted a professor she'd had for a Romance fiction class who'd said that books written by women FOR women are almost universally "yucked" and looked down on, despite Romance books consistently selling very well. She described how this has to do with misogyny and the idea that "women's stuff" isn't of consequence (women's work, women's roles in society, women's literature, women's sex drives, etc.) and that it involves a lot of slut-shaming as well.

Yes, romance novels are total trash compared to consequential male pastimes like WWE wrestling and monster truck rallies. No one would look down on those.

 

[Parson]

I also think that we have a false premise. I agree that mass market media are no more steamy (less I think is debatable) than they were 20-30 years ago or so. But if you are hoping to draw people in by being "steamy" there are so many more "steamy" things available to the average person today. What the author's real complaint is that "theater quality" films are trying to take the safe road. And the author also understands why. People are viewing a trip to the cinema very differently. It's become more of a trip to see something that's a spectacle, rather than a story.

On the whole I would say the author is "conservative." She wants things they way they used to be, and not the way the are or are likely going to be.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

Another classmate quoted a professor she'd had for a Romance fiction class who'd said that books written by women FOR women are almost universally "yucked" and looked down on, despite Romance books consistently selling very well. She described how this has to do with misogyny

Not necessarily misogyny. Unfortunately not all genres are equal. Some attract more crappy writers than others. Romance isn't the only one, but it's certainly up there.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Not necessarily misogyny. Unfortunately not all genres are equal. Some attract more crappy writers than others. Romance isn't the only one, but it's certainly up there.

Kurt Vonnegut said that being classified as a science fiction writer was like being put into a drawer being used as a urinal.

Asimov said that science fiction is the literature of ideas. Someone told me that Asimov could not write. I have seen his writing described as workmanlike. What does the reader want and what does "society", especially "literary society" tell us is "good writing".

What if Asimov did not care about writing very much and was in a hurry to write his next story idea. Could Ursula K LeGuin come up with a good science fiction story. Lathe of Heaven is fantasy.

C. P. Snow addressed the issue with his Two Cultures essay. It may be Hard SF and 5 or 6 other cultures.

 

[Toby Frost]

Could Ursula K LeGuin come up with a good science fiction story.

Yes, she did that quite a few times.