My writing diary.

Ian Fortytwo

Ian Fortytwo

A Poet, Writer and eclectic Reader.
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
1,424
Location
Somewhere on this mortal coil.
On each Saturday morning I sit in a local café, using its comfortable surroundings to get my creative juices flowing. To start with, I'm mainly planning and writing snippets that comes to me as and when my imagination allows me. Everything is longhand to start with, which is just my most helpful and comfortable way.

Each Saturday will be slightly different, all with one purpose, to get me writing.

This one is my second Saturday.

Also writing here is helpful.

Whether I will put something here each week is debatable.

I know that this forum is always helpful and friendly. Thank you.
 
Although my work is fiction, can I use real names without breaking the law. Example: in one scene the character is busking on the Underground, playing a flute and in the crowd is James Galway. Would that be breaking any laws, by just mentioning him.
 
There is no breach of the criminal law in England and Wales in simply mentioning a real person by name in a work of fiction.

However, you might fall foul of libel law if you mention that person in a context in which s/he is defamed eg if the flute playing is in a brothel or a drug den, which might suggest that person visits prostitutes or uses drugs. I gave a talk about defamation for the Chronscast and summarised the topic here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (but it's best to listen to the whole talk which gives more detail).

There is also a faint possibility that in some US states referring to a real person might constitute a breach of their right to exploit their own image, though it's likely to require more than a simple mention, eg using the person as a character within the novel -- I covered this very briefly in a talk on privacy, summarised here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (Again it's best to listen to the talk.)

Note also the issue of lèse-majesté and be aware that in some foreign jurisdictions defamation is a criminal offence as well as/instead of a civil matter.
 
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The Judge said:
There is no breach of the criminal law in England and Wales in simply mentioning a real person by name in a work of fiction.

However, you might fall foul of libel law if you mention that person in a context in which s/he is defamed eg if the flute playing is in a brothel or a drug den, which might suggest that person visits prostitutes or uses drugs. I gave a talk about defamation for the Chronscast and summarised the topic here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (but it's best to listen to the whole talk which gives more detail).

There is also a faint possibility that in some US states referring to a real person might constitute a breach of their right to exploit their own image, though it's likely to require more than a simple mention, eg using the person as a character within the novel -- I covered this very briefly in a talk on privacy, summarised here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (Again it's best to listen to the talk.)

Note also the issue of lèse-majesté and be aware that in some foreign jurisdictions defamation is a criminal offence as well as/instead of a civil matter.
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Now I can't get the image of James Galway playing the flute in a brothel out of my head!
 
The Judge said:
There is no breach of the criminal law in England and Wales in simply mentioning a real person by name in a work of fiction.

However, you might fall foul of libel law if you mention that person in a context in which s/he is defamed eg if the flute playing is in a brothel or a drug den, which might suggest that person visits prostitutes or uses drugs. I gave a talk about defamation for the Chronscast and summarised the topic here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (but it's best to listen to the whole talk which gives more detail).

There is also a faint possibility that in some US states referring to a real person might constitute a breach of their right to exploit their own image, though it's likely to require more than a simple mention, eg using the person as a character within the novel -- I covered this very briefly in a talk on privacy, summarised here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (Again it's best to listen to the talk.)

Note also the issue of lèse-majesté and be aware that in some foreign jurisdictions defamation is a criminal offence as well as/instead of a civil matter.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I am hoping to name some actors as well. Example Laurence Olivier and Richard Burton.
 
Ian Fortytwo said:
Thank you. I am hoping to name some actors as well. Example Laurence Olivier and Richard Burton.
Click to expand...
Since under the law in England and Wales as it present stands it isn't possibly to defame the dead, you're in no present danger regarding any mention of Olivier and Burton. However, as mentioned in my notes about defamation, it is possible to libel a friend/relative of a dead person by implication (eg if X is alleged to have been a serial rapist, it might imply that X's wife connived at his crimes). Furthermore, if a 2021 ECHR case is followed by the English and Welsh courts it may well be possible for relatives of the dead to bring an action regarding their right to privacy if what is said about the dead person affects them in some way.

Basically, still err on the side of caution when using real people. Unless there is a real point to it, don't.

Christine Wheelwright said:
Now I can't get the image of James Galway playing the flute in a brothel out of my head!
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And let's just hope he doesn't read Chrons.
 
Ian Fortytwo said:
On each Saturday morning I sit in a local café, using its comfortable surroundings to get my creative juices flowing. To start with, I'm mainly planning and writing snippets that comes to me as and when my imagination allows me. Everything is longhand to start with, which is just my most helpful and comfortable way.
Click to expand...

I spend each Saturday morning at my local library, for the same reasons! Also to avoid the distractions of home. I work on a laptop, though, I can't with the longhand... Also shame I can't order a coffee and cake.
 
The Judge said:
There is no breach of the criminal law in England and Wales in simply mentioning a real person by name in a work of fiction.

However, you might fall foul of libel law if you mention that person in a context in which s/he is defamed eg if the flute playing is in a brothel or a drug den, which might suggest that person visits prostitutes or uses drugs. I gave a talk about defamation for the Chronscast and summarised the topic here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (but it's best to listen to the whole talk which gives more detail).

There is also a faint possibility that in some US states referring to a real person might constitute a breach of their right to exploit their own image, though it's likely to require more than a simple mention, eg using the person as a character within the novel -- I covered this very briefly in a talk on privacy, summarised here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits (Again it's best to listen to the talk.)

Note also the issue of lèse-majesté and be aware that in some foreign jurisdictions defamation is a criminal offence as well as/instead of a civil matter.
Click to expand...
I suppose you could always call him Jim Galloway... or Gallowsway
 
And Private Eye gets sued quite a bit!

In addition, it's designed as a satirical magazine, well-known for its irreverence and mocking take on anyone in the public arena. As I mentioned in my talk about defamation, taking a person's actions/character to extremes by way of parody or satire can be a defence, in which case the more outrageous the better, as the less chance it will be seen as a genuine accusation, demeaning of the person concerned and therefore actionable.

Frankly, though, even if Ian were planning to write a satirical novel, I'd advise him against using a real person if there was any possibility in context of something being seen as defamatory. If it isn't defamatory, then there's no point changing the name.
 
The Judge said:
And Private Eye gets sued quite a bit!

In addition, it's designed as a satirical magazine, well-known for its irreverence and mocking take on anyone in the public arena. As I mentioned in my talk about defamation, taking a person's actions/character to extremes by way of parody or satire can be a defence, in which case the more outrageous the better, as the less chance it will be seen as a genuine accusation, demeaning of the person concerned and therefore actionable.

Frankly, though, even if Ian were planning to write a satirical novel, I'd advise him against using a real person if there was any possibility in context of something being seen as defamatory. If it isn't defamatory, then there's no point changing the name.
Click to expand...
A fair point.
 
The Judge said:
And Private Eye gets sued quite a bit!

In addition, it's designed as a satirical magazine, well-known for its irreverence and mocking take on anyone in the public arena. As I mentioned in my talk about defamation, taking a person's actions/character to extremes by way of parody or satire can be a defence, in which case the more outrageous the better, as the less chance it will be seen as a genuine accusation, demeaning of the person concerned and therefore actionable.

Frankly, though, even if Ian were planning to write a satirical novel, I'd advise him against using a real person if there was any possibility in context of something being seen as defamatory. If it isn't defamatory, then there's no point changing the name.
Click to expand...
Further thoughts on defamation. I found this interesting
(1)A statement is not defamatory unless its publication has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant.

(2)For the purposes of this section, harm to the reputation of a body that trades for profit is not “serious harm” unless it has caused or is likely to cause the body serious financial loss. (Defamation Act 2013)

There a few defences: If it is true, if it is an honest opinion that can be shown to be reasonable at the time it was made, that is was in the public interest.
Private Eye are very much used to these accusations (as the case of Arkell vs Pressdram 1971 shows) but I wondered how others got around it. I am thinking of the Crown which shows the Royal Family in a not too complimentary light, or any other "biographical" film or book.
One case that does come to mind is the libel surrounding the film The Lost King in which Steve Coogan and company was sued for libelling a university professor. The ruling was quite interesting and linked to here.

High Court Rules on Defamation Case Involving 'The Lost King' Film ([2024] EWHC 1475 (KB)) Case Summary | BeCivil

High Court rules on defamatory meanings in libel case involving 'The Lost King' film, setting significant precedent for media and communications law. Read the full case note for High Court Rules on Defamation Case Involving 'The Lost King' Film on BeCivil.
becivil.co.uk

The court found that the film conveyed two defamatory meanings about Mr. Taylor: that he knowingly misrepresented facts about the search for Richard III's remains, marginalising Philippa Langley's role while promoting the University of Leicester's involvement, and that his conduct towards Ms. Langley was smug, unduly dismissive, and patronising.

Judge Lewis determined that the first meaning was a statement of fact and defamatory at common law, while the second meaning was an expression of opinion. The court emphasized that the film's portrayal of Mr. Taylor was from Ms. Langley's perspective, and the hypothetical reasonable viewer would recognize the dismissive and patronising behavior as comment on her treatment by Mr. Taylor.

This ruling sets a significant precedent for media and communications law, particularly in the context of dramatisations based on true events. Legal experts note the importance of this judgment in balancing the portrayal of real individuals in media with the principles of defamation law.

Edit: For anyone interested in Private Eye's Arkell Vs Pressdram "case" it is a cracker here's the link.
proftomcrick.com

Arkell v Pressdram [1971]

In April 1971, Private Eye carried the story of how James Arkell, a retail credit manager, had dispensed with the services of two bailiffs who were on bail on charges of conspiracy to create a publ…
proftomcrick.com proftomcrick.com
 
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Today at the café I wrote down a list of things, and trying to plan each stage. I enjoy that hour, keeping it all simple. I find ideas are continually growing in my head. I put it down whether I use it or not is another thing.
 
Keep it lit, consistency is king or so they say. Back on track with my own novel. Fell off the wagon for a while, a virtual KDP ban coupled with a physical ban from the local open mic subconsciously dented my enthusiasm.
But on reflection a story is a story, and making slow progress is infinitely better than doing nothing -nice to see you reporting in (y)
 
Never used one -I've seen some of the gang in a local comedy club use one for Improv, with mixed results ...I reckon if you hook a reader enough to repeat any name 3+ times it blends into the story :unsure:
 
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