A question of commas

[DAgent]

So a couple of people asked me about comma placements and gave me an example they disagreed with. One of them was working on a dedication for their book and had asked the other to proofread it and the two disagreed about comma placements. Here's what the original text said:

"To my wonderful partner Sara,
Without her I could never have done this."

Now the writer could see no problems with this, her word processor hadn't flagged anything after all. The proofreader said there should be a comma after "Without her," and when I ran the same sentence as presented above, my word processor thought all was okay as well. Personally, I was under the impression that there should be a comma after partner and before Sara, but my word processor didn't flag that either. I didn't mention that to either of them though.

So I decided to try the same text with some online grammar checkers and, hey presto, guess what? Every single one of them said it should be "Without her," which makes me think my word processor spellchecker is out of date. Which is odd since it's Google Docs.

But what does everyone think? Clearly the proofreader is right, as far as all the other grammar checkers are concerned, but is this a bit of an Oxford comma vs other comma rules situation?

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

I prefer the original.

 

[Swank]

How do you have a sentence, That after a comma is capitalized?


I think the comma under discussion isn't so much grammatical as cadence. It probably was grammatically correct with the comma, but now people tend to speak without the pause in that sort of sentence construction.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I'm assuming that the comma after 'Sara' is a typo? It should be a full stop or semi colon. The only place I would put a comma is after 'without her'.

Commas ensure that a sentence makes grammatical sense, and to give the reader/speaker a chance to draw breath. In this case, no commas at all would just about work. But I feel that the second sentence is a little too long not to have one.

 

[Pyan]

How do you have a sentence, That after a comma is capitalized?

Thomas Gray managed...

The curfew tolls the knell of parting day,
The lowing herd wind slowly o'er the lea,
The plowman homeward plods his weary way,
And leaves the world to darkness and to me.

Now fades the glimm'ring landscape on the sight,
And all the air a solemn stillness holds,
Save where the beetle wheels his droning flight,
And drowsy tinklings lull the distant folds;

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Commas are all about tiny breaks in flow, and tiny emphases on the word just before the comma.

 

[paranoid marvin]

And if your sentence is too long without any commas you will just end up feeling breathless after having read it back to yourself.

 

[tinkerdan]

"To my wonderful partner Sara, without her I could never have done this."

This works as is and would not work well with another comma. as in:

"To my wonderful partner Sara, without her, I could never have done this."

Does not work well at all.

 

[tinkerdan]

"To my wonderful partner Sara,
without her I could never have done this."
However:
if you are waxing poetical...

Without her, I could never have done this

Might make the reader do this

"To my wonderful partner Sara,
Without her,
I could never have done this."

you could just do this

"To my wonderful partner Sara, I could never have done this without her."
"To my wonderful partner Sara.
I could never have done this without her."

 

[The Judge]

If the dedication is definitely being set out in two separate lines and eg centred, then I'd argue the comma after "Sara" (required in a sentence all on one line, though a longer pause like a semi-colon or full stop would be better) is otiose, but yes, technically there whould be a comma before it.

As to the comma after "her" I'd say again technically it's required, but as a matter of appearance I'd not bother with it.

Personally, I'd go with tinkerdan's idea and add the "without her" at the end to avoid the niggle.

 

[Cat's Cradle]

I only write Challenge stories, so get that grain of salt ready...

I like eliminating commas to get the cadence for a line that I want the reader to experience, rules of grammar be d*mned.

So, with this:

"To my wonderful partner Sara,
Without her I could never have done this."

I'd want to use the first sentence to let the reader know something important is coming up… I'd eliminate the comma after 'Sara' and use a dash to set the second sentence up as the important bit. Also the dash gives a longer pause, which to me helps to eliminate the need for the comma in the second sentence.

I'd keep the 'Without her' up front in the second, so this is a statement about her, rather than him (if it starts 'I could never have done this…' it seems to be more about what he couldn't do, rather than what she inspired him to do).
And no comma anywhere. So:

"To my wonderful partner Sara –
Without her I could never have done this."

I'd keep 'Without' capitalized.

Ah, it'd all work in a 75 worder, I think.

 

[tinkerdan]

without her I could never have done this."
Too long?? too long. hmm too--long--Ah ha I can fix that.
"To my wonderful partner Sara--couldn't've done without her"

Note:
This is not grammar and spelling now; it's Slaughter house 5.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Add some more grain while I, as a non-native English speaker, notices the following:

"To my wonderful partner Sara,
Without her I could never have done this."

It is a dedication, about (and basically addressed to) Sara. So, IMHO, the 2nd line should be (if we maintain that capital) "Without whom I could never have done this."

or, replace the comma after Sara with a semi-colon:

"To my wonderful partner Sara;
Without you I could never have done this."

Either way, a comma after 'Without you' seems unnecessary to me. That 2nd line is a clear, short statement that should run unhindered by comma's.

 

[Ursa major]

Thomas Gray managed...

The curfew tolls the knell of parting day,
The lowing herd wind slowly o'er the lea,
The plowman homeward plods his weary way,
And leaves the world to darkness and to me.

Now fades the glimm'ring landscape on the sight,
And all the air a solemn stillness holds,
Save where the beetle wheels his droning flight,
And drowsy tinklings lull the distant folds;

But that's a poem, where the first word of a line starting with a capital letter is not at all the same as putting a capital letter on the first word of a new line of prose.

In any case, the example given in the first post is a run-on sentence, where the "inappropriate punctuation" is the comma.

By the way, may I suggest that using the correct punctuation after "Sara" would make the presence of a comma after "her" far less controversial, but in any case, I prefer (without having investigated more radical changes):

To my wonderful partner, Sara.
I could never have done this without her.​

 

[paranoid marvin]

And should it not be 'whom' rather than 'her'?

 

[Ursa major]

And should it not be 'whom' rather than 'her'?

I thought that might sound a little arch (although it depends on the book), but I had also been thinking of:

To my wonderful partner, Sara, without whom this book would never have been written.​

 

[Alex The G and T]

To my wonderful partner Sara, without whom all of this would not have been necessary.

 

[Dave]

Sarah isn't pleased. She says that it is missing an "h", and if you don't know that yet, she's leaving you!

 

[tinkerdan]

To my wonderful partner,
Para Graph,
Without whom I would never have,
been Sentence(d)
to death.

 

[DAgent]

I'm assuming that the comma after 'Sara' is a typo? It should be a full stop or semi colon. The only place I would put a comma is after 'without her'.

Commas ensure that a sentence makes grammatical sense, and to give the reader/speaker a chance to draw breath. In this case, no commas at all would just about work. But I feel that the second sentence is a little too long not to have one.

I did wonder about that "Sara," bit as well, but nothing I ran it through flagged it as an error. I even replaced the "Sara," with "Sara." and that made no difference there either, so all grammar checkers seem okay with that bit, at least the ones I tried out.

I sometimes look at commas being there for a little dramatic pause, or to add a little emphasis to the word before it, and that would certainly work with the "Without her, I".