"Another Oxford fairy-story" (pre 1938)?

[Matteo]

I asked this over on the December reading thread (which I suppose is the wrong place) maybe here it's more appropriate. It's intrigued me before - though I have not asked.

I was re-reading Letters from Father Christmas (that Tolkien wrote to his children) and in 1937 he writes that he was going to send Hobbits but considers that they probably already had lots, so instead "I am sending another Oxford fairy-story".

Does anyone (particularly the Tolkien scholars we have here) know what that book was?

 

[HareBrain]

Possibly Lewis Carroll's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland?

 

[Matteo]

Sounds very possible. Lewis Carrol was not from there but wrote it in Oxford and it seems to be set there (initially, obviously).

And as you say how could "Father Christmas" send a book not yet published?

Although I would also be surprised they did not have it.

And there are no clues - he simply says "another Oxford fairy-story".

 

[Extollager]

Thing is, though, that Tolkien didn't regard the Alice books as fairy-stories. They are dream-stories. Or so he says in "On Fairy-Stories" -- but he might have been using the term less strictly in writing to youngsters.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Thing is, though, that Tolkien didn't regard the Alice books as fairy-stories. They are dream-stories. Or so he says in "On Fairy-Stories" -- but he might have been using the term less strictly in writing to youngsters.

Yes I'd agree. Fairy tales are folklore - Alice in Wonderland is not.

 

[HareBrain]

Yes, I'm not that keen on Alice as the answer, but nothing else comes to mind.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I would assume that the reference to Oxford would be the location that the author had studied, rather than where they lived or were born.

It probably is Lewis Carroll, but perhaps a different one than Alice?

 

[BAYLOR]

What about Phantasies by George MacDonald?

 

[Dave]

What about Pantasies by George MacDonald?

Phantasies was published in 1858. That's unlikely to be something new sent for Christmas 79 years later, and Pantasies, a more risqué story about fairies' lace undergarments, would not be suitable reading material for his children.

 

[BAYLOR]

Phantasies was published in 1858. That's unlikely to be something new sent for Christmas 79 years later, and Pantasies, a more risqué story about fairies' lace undergarments, would not be suitable reading material for his children.

A typo which I fixed

I was hazarding a guess on which story

 

[paranoid marvin]

A quick scan of my 'Letters of JRR Tolkien' for that year does not volunteer any clues I'm afraid.

 

[Extollager]

Tolkien submitted a ms of Farmer Giles to Allen and Unwin 15 Nov. 1937. So this Oxford-based tale was written before the 1937 Father Christmas letter was distributed.

(By the way, a week or two before the Father Christmas letter for 1937 (if Tolkien wrote that on Christmas Eve), Tolkien started the "new Hobbit," i.e. The Lord of the Rings.)

But looking again at the original posting above, it sounds to me like Father Christmas was referring to the 1937 letter itself. Does that make sense?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Tolkien submitted a ms of Farmer Giles to Allen and Unwin 15 Nov. 1937. So this Oxford-based tale was written before the 1937 Father Christmas letter was distributed.

(By the way, a week or two before the Father Christmas letter for 1937 (if Tolkien wrote that on Christmas Eve), Tolkien started the "new Hobbit," i.e. The Lord of the Rings.)

But looking again at the original posting above, it sounds to me like Father Christmas was referring to the 1937 letter itself. Does that make sense?

Yes, I think that you're right. He probably did send them the first iteration of Farmer Giles.

 

[HareBrain]

But looking again at the original posting above, it sounds to me like Father Christmas was referring to the 1937 letter itself.

The 1937 letter does include a section by Ilbereth the elf. But why say an Oxford fairy story? (And would FC call it a fairy story, when that would highlight it as being fiction? I assume Tolkien was still maintaining the reality of FC to at least his youngest child at this stage.)

Yes, I think that you're right. He probably did send them the first iteration of Farmer Giles.

But wouldn't the children know it was their father's story, especially if it was in a home-typewritten condition? How would it then be from Father Christmas?

 

[paranoid marvin]

The 1937 letter does include a section by Ilbereth the elf. But why say an Oxford fairy story? (And would FC call it a fairy story, when that would highlight it as being fiction? I assume Tolkien was still maintaining the reality of FC to at least his youngest child at this stage.)


But wouldn't the children know it was their father's story, especially if it was in a home-typewritten condition? How would it then be from Father Christmas?

All but one of his children were teenagers by Christmas 1937.

He was going to send them Hobbits, but instead sent something else. He describes it as 'another' Oxford fairy-story, which means that he also considers his Hobbit tales to be an Oxford dairy-story.

I think that 'Oxford-written' is a euphamism for 'self-written'. It's also (in my mind) far too coincidental that Farmer Giles had just been written.

If I'd known that FG was completed then (I thought it would have been much closer to it's publication date more than a decade later), that would have been my first thought.

I really do think that Extollager has this one right, but hopefully someone who has more knowledge of the background of the creation of FG will know for sure.

 

[Hugh]

Much too soon I suppose for a very early Narnia draft. Besides, JRRT disapproved

 

[HareBrain]

Oxford dairy-story

That would be Farmer Giles of Cheese, rather than Ham.

 

[Matteo]

I'm doubtful of it being the manuscript of FG since the letter was supposed to be coming from Father Christmas so I'm thinking an actual book more likely.

The children (Christopher and Priscilla) would have known The Hobbit was written by their father in Oxford so I'm assuming JRRT is referring to fairy story written in Oxford (even if they would not know that). Also interesting he considers The Hobbit to be a fairy story.

I've looked around the Interweb, but keep bumping up against On Fairy Stories.

 

[Extollager]

I'm not convinced the story Tolkien/Father Christmas had in mind was some version of "Farmer Giles" either. But Scull and Hammond report that there was a "typescript by the early to mid-1930s." They add: "In late 1969 Tolkien submitted Farmer Giles of Ham" to his publisher. Furthermore, "In January 1938 [Tolkien] rewrote the story, enlarging it by some fifty percent, for reading on 14 February 1938 to the Lovelace Society, an essay club at Worcester College, Oxford." So whether or not "Giles" was the "Oxford fairy-story" for children that Tolkien had in mind in his Father Christmas letter, it's likely "Giles" was (also?) on his mind around then. If "Farmer Giles" was not the story he had in mind, what other candidates known to us might it have been? Well, certainly Tolkien could have imagined a short story meant just for the younger Tolkiens, but that's speculation at this point.

Source: Scull and Hammond, J. R. R. Tolkien Companion and Guide: Reader's Guide Part 1: A-M (2017), s.v. Farmer Giles of Ham.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Bear in mind that in 1937 his youngest child was eight and a half. His others were thirteen, seventeen and twenty. By the time of the last letter, his youngest was 14, his eldest 26.

The letters were a traditional Christmas treat that he continued to send even when they knew that they came from their father.

As Lewis Carroll's stories were 40 years old by this stage, I feel sure that they would already have owned those books. Perhaps he sent them a new, illustrated edition?

And Tolkien did tend to get feedback on his stories from his children, so he would definitely have got them to read FG at some stage - why not shortly after it had been written?

I do think it would be unusual to send a manuscript, rather than a bound book (presumably there wasn't one of FG at that time), so it may have been another children's book written by one of his Oxford-educated friends.