Question about explicit sex scenes in urban fantasy novels

[sinister42]

I've been going back and forth with my first novel, which is a weird urban fantasy novel with queer paranormal romance elements (and sci-fi, and horror, and and and...it's a weird novel). I initially wrote a sort of PG-13 version where the sex scenes "pan to a fireplace" before the explicit stuff happens. I've also experimented with writing the explicit scenes in full, but I'm not confident that I'm particularly good at doing that. I know "sex sells," but what are your thoughts on including explicit scenes in a novel that isn't explicitly a romance novel, but has romantic entanglements in it? I had this wild thought of producing two versions of the novel - a PG-13 version and an explicit version. It'd be pretty simple to do that.

 

[SmashingPumpkin]

I say, if nothing changes in your novel when you cut the sex scene, then cut it. As I understand it, the romance is a subplot here, not the main genre of your novel so sex isn't necessarily expected (and might even turn some people away).
On the other hand, you can show a lot about a character through a sex scene if it's throughtfully written, i.e. if the character has intimacy issues and they're opening to someone for the first time in a long while. Your character or characters and/or their dynamic might change after that scene. If you feel like your readers will miss something by not you not showing the detail of the jiggity, and what went where and how and why, then by all means, show it.
What's your intention for that scene?
Your novel sounds interesting, btw. Best of luck!

 

[paranoid marvin]

I remember reading a novel some while ago that had a sex scene, but rather than take us through the intimate detail, just said 'then they did other things'.

For me, that was enough. I was reading a horror story, not a romance novel.

They go to bed together, they wake up in the same bed together. The reader can draw their own conclusions what happened in between.

No doubt one or both of them popped to the loo in the night. Maybe went to the kitchen for a cup of coffee, or smoked a cigarette. Not everything needs to be spelled out.

If the scene is integral to the novel, include it. If it isn't, then you've just wasted several pages of text.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

If you want the novel to be commercial then don't include the explicit descriptions of sex. If you don't care about sales - if you are writing for the fun and glory of it - then enjoy yourself and do whatever you want.

Besides, for the reader, 90% of the 'tension' is likely in the build up. What draws each character to the other? Who has the power? What might the repercussions be? Is anything at stake? By the time the detailed descriptions of actions arrive, it is likely too late to arouse the reader. Better to let the reader fill in some of the blanks (because the reader will fill in those blanks in a way that is just perfect for them). In that sense, this is a similar to the 'world building' thread that is currently running (asking how much detail to include).

 

[paranoid marvin]

You also mention that you don't think that you're particularly good writing an explicit sex scene.

With that comment, you've really answered your own question.

Any section of any story is better not written than poorly written.

 

[sinister42]

All very valid responses, and I thank you for them.

 

[Cthulhu.Science]

It also depends -- If you want an audience that is looking for weird alien sex books, you might have niche there. Maybe if you do you should lean into it.

Anne Rice got her start writing erotica in a fantasy setting-- Sleeping Beauty told as an erotic bisexual sex slave harem story. So crazy fantasy explicit sex exists and sells.

Good Luck.

 

[Montero]

what are your thoughts on including explicit scenes in a novel that isn't explicitly a romance novel, but has romantic entanglements in it? I had this wild thought of producing two versions of the novel - a PG-13 version and an explicit version. It'd be pretty simple to do that.

Have you read T Kingfisher "Paladin's Grace" or indeed the later books in the series? Hard to classify in its way, but it is fantasy, a murder mystery and a romance - with decapitated bodies. Sex does happen, and there is some description - and a very long build up - but it is not as detailed as some I've read. (If you ever want seriously detailed, Laurel K Hamilton's really long vampire series - but be careful what you wish for, includes plenty of anatomical detail and depending on your taste you may need brain bleach.)
Anyway, T Kingfisher is a very popular author, some of her books have sex in, some absolutely don't, and I think she handles the romance/sex side of it when she does it, with humour and her own style. You might find something in there that would give you inspiration for how to write something you are happy with.

 

[Toby Frost]

I think the important thing is that people know what they're getting. If the point of the story is the sex, people won't mind if the plot allows it to happen a lot. If it isn't erotica, then I'd probably ease back on the sex. The Difference Engine by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling contains 10 pages or so of unexpected grotty Victorian sex in the middle, which made me think "Wow, someone was having an odd day" when I first read it.

 

[pogopossum]

Above "Mood" was mentioned. Perhaps my favorite Urban Fantasy series is Aaronovitch's Rivers of London. In an early book the prime character is described as repeatedly having sex with a girlfriend to the level that the neighbors pound on the walls telling them to be quiet. Later the great joys of sex between that character and his girlfriend (later to be his wife) are clearly stated. But other than descriptions of his appreciation of her "contours" no real descriptions of body contact are given. Later when asked what she sees in him, his wife says that he is "A prime shagger" and makes several follow up comments to the amusement of a small dinner party and his extreme embarrassment. All of this plus descriptions of both female and male forms show up in the series. This could be seen as explicit, but the word used above, mood, and relationships, are what is established. It certainly does not detract from character development or what is a fantasy and police procedural series.
Other authors handle body parts and sex as described above, without destroying the basic narrative. It depends on style, development and what you are trying to achieve.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I'd also strongly advise against having two versions. Who wants to buy a book with bits edited out?

 

[sinister42]

Decision made. I edited out the sex scenes last night and turned the novel PG-13 (or 15+ (I think) for you Brits). Honestly, they were fun to write but probably not very good, and you're all absolutely correct (and surprisingly aligned) in your assessments. Thanks so much for the good advice.

 

[sinister42]

Have you read T Kingfisher "Paladin's Grace" or indeed the later books in the series? Hard to classify in its way, but it is fantasy, a murder mystery and a romance - with decapitated bodies. Sex does happen, and there is some description - and a very long build up - but it is not as detailed as some I've read. (If you ever want seriously detailed, Laurel K Hamilton's really long vampire series - but be careful what you wish for, includes plenty of anatomical detail and depending on your taste you may need brain bleach.)
Anyway, T Kingfisher is a very popular author, some of her books have sex in, some absolutely don't, and I think she handles the romance/sex side of it when she does it, with humour and her own style. You might find something in there that would give you inspiration for how to write something you are happy with.

I've read The Twisted Ones and The Hollow Places, but none of her other work. I liked The Hollow Places, but I thought The Twisted Ones had a confusing ending and left a lot of dangling plot threads.

 

[Montero]

I've read The Twisted Ones and The Hollow Places, but none of her other work. I liked The Hollow Places, but I thought The Twisted Ones had a confusing ending and left a lot of dangling plot threads.

Those are more horror than the Paladin series. Though there are definitely horror moments in the Paladin series - well someone beheading people tends towards horror.
I've not yet re-read either of the ones you've read as I am fonder of the Paladin ones - oh, and Nettle and Bone which is impressive in its lovely job of subverting fairy tale tropes.

 

[The Big Peat]

My answer to this question, had I arrived in time, would have been it depends.

That said as a coda for anyone else thinking about the question in the future, I would add (as someone who has zero problems with sexy times on the page (and little time for the romance genre)) -

All good scenes work because they are connected with others.

That's the real litmus test on whether to include it. Does including it provide more context and pay off and build up for other scenes? Or not? If it's not, then it's probably best out the book. And if the writer of said scene disagrees, then they should go around altering that scene and others to make it connected.

And if they still disagree... well, it mightn't really matter all that much anyway. All sorts of stories sell with all sorts of perceived flaws.

 

[sinister42]

I decided to make this scene sort of R-rated, because when I cut it down to PG-13, I felt like it cut off too abruptly:

PG-13

Once in Robert’s apartment, the two of them locked eyes, and then lips, and fell into each other. Clyve grabbed the back of Robert’s head and pulled him closer, as if trying to devour him. Robert guided Clyve toward the bedroom, the two of them urgently shedding clothes, until they fell into bed, Robert on top.

Later, lying in a haze of sweat and endorphins...

R (maybe a little more than R?)

Once in Robert’s apartment, the two of them locked eyes, and then lips, and fell into each other. Clyve grabbed the back of Robert’s head and pulled him closer, as if trying to devour him. Robert guided Clyve toward the bedroom, the two of them urgently shedding clothes, until they fell into bed, Robert on top. He regarded Clyve’s form below him, marveling at how smoothly the metal fused into flesh just below Clyve’s right armpit. Tracing that boundary with his tongue, Robert felt Clyve shiver and sigh, running his other hand through Robert’s hair. Robert continued exploring Clyve’s form with his mouth, teasing the man, tasting the heat of Clyve’s flesh and the surprising warmth of the metal. He traced that boundary to its southern limit just above Clyve’s navel, and then continued his explorations, until Clyve gasped and bucked upward as Robert devoured the length of him.

Later, lying in a haze of sweat and endorphins...

***

So, I think it's important to the plot that we get a better sense of Clyve's physicality, which is defined by him having been "put back together" Robocop-style by the military after he was hit by an IED (the novel takes place maybe 10 years from now, in a version of the real world that has all the mythical creatures in it). Half of his upper body, including half of his head, is made of metal. Having Robert "explore" and discover Clyve's body helps to deepen their relationship and helps the audience get a bettetr sense of who Clyve is and what he looks like. Also, it's just kind of hot. And I felt like cutting it off at the PG-13 mark was just too short of a scene and would leave the audience feeling unsatisfied.


There's a later scene that cuts off pretty quickly, but I think it works better:

Not too spent, I hope, Robert couldn’t stop himself from thinking. He excused himself and went to find the bathroom, which he found at the back of the truck stop. It was a clean and serviceable place, three urinals, two stalls, without the usual rank smells that truck stop bathrooms were prone to. Robert relieved himself, washed his hands, and then splashed some cold water on his face. Get it together.

But before he could get anything together, Henry walked into the bathroom.

“Oh hey,” Robert said.

Henry smirked at Robert, locked the bathroom door, and then leaned on it like a cool guy. Robert stared at him.

“Well?” said Henry.


As the two of them emerged from the bathroom some time later, Robert tried his best not to look like he’d just had one of the best fucks of his life...

Here, I don't think I need to show the entire sex scene, because the "Well?" said Henry" bit serves as a pretty good scene ender. And it's kind of cheeky and fun as a scene.

 

[Montero]

Not knowledgeable on rating levels, but much prefer the metal version of the Clyve scene as it is interesting and not just a standard lust scene. If you wanted to downgrade it a little, tracing with fingers instead of tongue might help.

Not pongy loo scene is fine.

Did then start thinking that Robert isn't exactly monogamous....... people fond of one night stands is not my preferred reading, just thought I'd mention as a calibration point.

 

[sinister42]

Not knowledgeable on rating levels, but much prefer the metal version of the Clyve scene as it is interesting and not just a standard lust scene. If you wanted to downgrade it a little, tracing with fingers instead of tongue might help.

Not pongy loo scene is fine.

Did then start thinking that Robert isn't exactly monogamous....... people fond of one night stands is not my preferred reading, just thought I'd mention as a calibration point.

So at this point in the novel, something huge has happened that I won't spoil, as a result of which Clyve has not been in the picture for the majority of the novel. The scene with Henry happens much, much later in the novel. Robert doesn't feel an obligation toward exclusivity with Clyve because they've just had the one night together. Henry is the wolf who turned Robert, and they've had a complicated relationship, but the signals have been there for a little while, and this particular set of scenes has thrust them together (pun intended) in ways that bring those feelings to the surface. I can't really say more without spoilers, but Robert is surprised that he's as horny as a teenager these days (he's in his mid-30s), and he thinks his lycanthropy is at least partly responsible for his increased libido. The novel isn't all about Robert sleeping his way around the werewolf pack - it's just Clyve and Henry that he gets with.

If you'd like to read the whole thing, I'm publishing it serially here: Write Sinister | E. D. Jones | Substack. Chapters 1-3 are up now, and new chapters are releasing weekly on Mondays at noon (American Central time).

 

[sinister42]

The final version I settled on is out now. Let me know what you think. AWOO: Chapters Nine, Ten, and Eleven (NSFW warning)