martin, magic

[jadeaaronr]

hey everyone, im new to the forum. i just finished "a game of thrones," the first book in a song of ice and fire by george rr martin. last night i started a clash of kings. i think this is an incredible start to an interesting series. i have one problem. there doesnt seem to be any magic. there was a tiny bit of "blood magic" used at the end of the first book. part of the reason i love to read fantasy is because of the mystical creatures and the use of magic. could anyone tell me if the following books in this series involve any more magic? i was excited when he introduced dragons at the end of book 1. i will read the series either way becuase i think it is brilliantly written. does anyone have any suggestions on any others series that have a good amount of magic? the more believable the author makes the magic seem the more interesting it is for me to read. thanks for any suggestions-

jade

 

[Tyranus]

I finished the book last night, and I found the lack of magic refreshing. I loved the book and the only thing I hate is the fact that I may have to wait 3 weeks to continue the series.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Hi Jadeaaronr, I hate to disappoint you but as of yet there is little magic in the series. I think the levels of magic have increased as time has gone on, but the story is based on much, much more than just magic- political intrigue, power struggles, war, etc. Honestly, they're my favorite fantasy books so far. And I'm going to have to agree with Tyranus: the lack of magic made them more enjoyable to me as well. Not that I dislike reading about magic or anything like that. I just find that the majority of fantasy writers seem to include too many cliches in their writing when they involve magic too heavily in their plots.


Anway, wrapping up- keep reading, I'm sure you'll love all of the books.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Magic is something that's growing in ASoFaI - think in terms of a pendulum slowly shifting...

 

[Jay]

I echo one of the opinions above the low magic so far was breath of fresh air, whowing that Martin wasn't going to do what many authors (partciulary authors in epic/high fantasy) do and over use magic as a crutch to cover their weaknesses as writers in regards to plotting. One of what is the serious downfalls of this sub-genre as of late is the over use of magic, or more aptly teh irresponsible use of it by many authors IMHO.

*SPOILERS*


I also echo the opinion of Brian however, as one of the underlying themes in the novel is that Magic was lost because of the non-existance of Dragons, - now later in the series we see the different factions regaining their lost abilites because of the Dragons returning presence in the world.

 

[jadeaaronr]

thank you for letting me know about the *spoilers*, i definately will not read those comments.

 

[Direwolf]

*CONTINUED SPOILERS*

now later in the series we see the different factions regaining their lost abilites because of the Dragons returning presence in the world.

Anyone else think the relationship between the appearance of dragons and increase in magic is at least partially reciprocal? The Others had been pushing south before the book POV's even started, and I think the dragons may have returned in response to this. Also, while I think the increased power of the R'hllor devotees and pyromancers is due to the dragons, the appearance of the Stark family direwolves / warg abilities has probably more to do with the Others and Children of the Forest. Same for Coldhands and the three-eyedcrow. All the stuff with the "drowned god" and the Krakens has yet to be explained, but that power may come from somewhere else, as well.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Hmmmm... thank you Direwolf. Good food for thought while I pretend to work today.

 

[Young Wolf]

Interesting thoughts on the two magical forces Direwolf. It could be that the "ultimate showdown" in ASOFAI will be between these two forces. If this is so, I'm not sure if all the Starks will be on the same side when this showdown begins. Has anyone noticed that besides the Red Priestess, the Starks' magic is a little dark for people who're supposed to be the good guys? I vaguely remember Ned saying that the first Starks were evil men. It's possible that there are dark legacies in the Stark family history that has yet to be revealed to anyone, including the Starks themselves.

 

[Direwolf]

Has anyone noticed that besides the Red Priestess, the Starks' magic is a little dark for people who're supposed to be the good guys?

To be honest, I don't really think it is. Sure, Bran doing his mind-meld thing with Hodor is a bit creepy, but other than that, their strength seems to be in communing with the natural world (wolves and trees in particular). If you compare that to the trail of murders and ritual sacrifice Melisandre is leaving in her wake, and add to that the company of undead that follow Thoros... I'm not so sure the R'hllor camp seems like it's on the right side.

All in all, I think the Others are uniformly bad, but that good and bad intermingle in all the other groups, the Starks included. All the magical fire stuff (including the dragons) is a tool to be utilized by anyone, good or bad.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

If you compare that to the trail of murders and ritual sacrifice Melisandre is leaving in her wake, and add to that the company of undead that follow Thoros... I'm not so sure the R'hllor camp seems like it's on the right side.

All in all, I think the Others are uniformly bad, but that good and bad intermingle in all the other groups, the Starks included. All the magical fire stuff (including the dragons) is a tool to be utilized by anyone, good or bad.

What you just said here runs almost perfectly in line with what I was thinking. I was just going to say that I think that the Starks will simply help to keep Rh'llor's overzealous supporters in check- you know, even out the playing field a bit.

 

[Jinglehopper]

*CONTINUED SPOILERS*
Anyone else think the relationship between the appearance of dragons and increase in magic is at least partially reciprocal? The Others had been pushing south before the book POV's even started, and I think the dragons may have returned in response to this. Also, while I think the increased power of the R'hllor devotees and pyromancers is due to the dragons, the appearance of the Stark family direwolves / warg abilities has probably more to do with the Others and Children of the Forest. Same for Coldhands and the three-eyedcrow. All the stuff with the "drowned god" and the Krakens has yet to be explained, but that power may come from somewhere else, as well.

I think it is less of a response than a general turning of the world. Having two forces balancing each other is a little too David Eddings/Dragonlancy for Martin's tastes. I equate the rise of magic in the world like the rising tides. There are periods of extreme mysticism and then there aren't. We just happened to be seeing a point in Westeros's history where there is a swell.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

That makes sense when considering the world is tied to huge epic seasons as well. It could be a theme Martin is trying to imply.

 

[Wiggum]

Kind of hard to say there's a lack of magic with dire wolves as familiars, green visions, the others, the wights, dragons, shapechangers, The Lightening Lord, the Horn of Winter, etc.

It's presented subtely within the story, but there's a lot of it there.