theon

[jadeaaronr]

hi everyone. i have a small problem. my memory doesn't work like it used to. i started reading a game of thrones in january right before my final semester of college. college began to get hectic and i put the book aside. recently, i finished the final few hundred pages of the book and have now started a clash of kings. there are many things mentioned in this book that i have forgotten. i'm not trying to be lazy and not do any research for myself, but i thought someone might be able to help me. i just read the first chapter on theon greyjoy. he is traveling to see his father in pyke on a mission from robb stark. could someone fill me in on anything important that i need to know about theon this far into the series. also, can you help me remember what mission he is on for robb stark and how his lord father fits into the picture so far. thank you for any help-

jade

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Jade,

Thus far, Theon has come in and out of the bigger picture. He fought with Robb in the Whispering Wood (I think that was what it was called), and has been at his side in all the battles. Robb sent him as an envoy, first to two other lords (who I can't remember but so far have been inconsequential), and then to his father. Robb wanted Theon to deman that his father swear fealty to Robb, the King in the North.

I'm not going to try to spoil anything for you here. Suffice to say that Theon seems to desire power but does not relish or respect the responsibilities that accompany it.

Happy reading!

 

[jadeaaronr]

thank you for the help. i just wanted to make sure i hadn't forgot any crucial information. i have a tendency to do that.

 

[Kingslayer Snow]

Does anyone know what happen during Theon's search for Bran and Rickon. We now know that they were hiding in Winterfells crypts during the search and that it was insinuated that the heads that were spiked on the gates of Winterfell may have been some farm children, but it was never really stated what happened. Did I miss something? Who's heads were on the gate? Why does Theon think he killed them? Why did Jojen have a dream of the guy killing Bran (I can't seem to remember his name, but he joined Theon's men after he stormed Winterfell, along with Osha.) I'm lost and am starting to think I may have skipped something, but I can't imagine that I would the way I've devoured the books thus far. Can anyone help clear up this mystery for me?

 

[YOSSARIAN]

I'm pretty sure the heads on the gate were the children of a farmer's wife that Theon and some other guys knew well. I think Jojen had a dream about two children being killed, and assumed it was Bran and Rickon.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

The two heads were those of the farmer's wife who Reek (that's the guy you're on about Kingslayer!) knew were around Bran & Rickon's age.
So Theon had them killed and tarred up before anyone could see them & realise they weren't really them.
Theon knows they're not the real deal, but a lot of his 'internal thought' on the matter isn't so much about them, merely that the 'friends' he'd made at Winterfell had turned against him and betrayed him (yes, he is that deluded).

I understood Jojen's dream to refer to the 2 children murdered by Theon (he killed the parents too btw, to keep it all secret), not Bran & Rickon although it's been a while since I've gone back to that particular chapter.

Oh, and Kingslayer Snow, welcome to the forums!

 

[Kingslayer Snow]

Thanks, Winters_Sorrow! A friend of mine just turned me on to the books about two months. I'm just about finished with AFFC. The beautiful thing for me is being that I've just recently started reading it my memories are very fresh. And my wait time for the books has been seemless up to this point.

The more I think about it I think your theory is right. Jojens vision were never to the very last detail exact, rather a loose interpretation of the events.

But what about Maester Luwin? I kind of have the feeling that he knows that they weren't Bran and Rickon, but then again some of his words say elsewise. For instance, when Luwin was trying to convince Theon to take the Black he chastised him for what he did to the boys. Now why would he chastise him? Wouldn't you think that he would have given some kind of acknowledgement that he knew and appreciated that little sense of mercy. Or is that Theon is trying to convince everyone, but Maester Luwin knows the truth and plays along with it? I just don't like that it was never really resolved by Martin, especially this far along in the book. But then again he can always address it in Bran's later chapters or Theon's, if he reappears as a POV.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Was it mercy that kept Theon from killing Bran and Rickon? I thought he was forced to kill the other kids because the Stark boys were out of his reach.

I hope he hasn't been killed "offscreen"; I don't like him and would like to watch him get destroyed. Snotty little ungrateful piece of...

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

But what about Maester Luwin? I kind of have the feeling that he knows that they weren't Bran and Rickon, but then again some of his words say elsewise. For instance, when Luwin was trying to convince Theon to take the Black he chastised him for what he did to the boys. Now why would he chastise him? Wouldn't you think that he would have given some kind of acknowledgement that he knew and appreciated that little sense of mercy. Or is that Theon is trying to convince everyone, but Maester Luwin knows the truth and plays along with it? I just don't like that it was never really resolved by Martin, especially this far along in the book. But then again he can always address it in Bran's later chapters or Theon's, if he reappears as a POV.

Maester Luwin for sure knew that it wasn't Bran and Rickon- he was pretty much their surrogate father in Ned's absence, and knew their faces and bodies well. However, it would not benefit him to let on to Theon that he knew they were still alive. Theon would only turn his cruelty on Maester Luwin and others to find out where Bran and Rickon had gone. The boys were much safer with Maester Luwin playing dumb.

I liked Maester Luwin, it's a shame he had to die.

 

[Boaz]

Luwin knew because the dead Bran's legs were healthy and not atrophied like the real Bran's.

OP, Facts about Theon.

At age nine or ten, Theon was sent to Winterfell as a hostage. He was treated well by the Starks, but was introduced to the Stark and Westerosi methods and philosophies of success, problem solving, and power. These ideas and concepts are antithetical to the culture of the Ironmen. He enjoys thinking he's more cunning, intelligent, sophisticated, ie. cooler than anyone else. He saved Bran from bandits once. He also likes seducing women.

Basically, Theon thinks he's 007, but he's closer to Agent 86.

Sorry about that, Chief.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Does anyone know what happen during Theon's search for Bran and Rickon. We now know that they were hiding in Winterfells crypts during the search and that it was insinuated that the heads that were spiked on the gates of Winterfell may have been some farm children, but it was never really stated what happened. Did I miss something? Who's heads were on the gate? Why does Theon think he killed them? Why did Jojen have a dream of the guy killing Bran (I can't seem to remember his name, but he joined Theon's men after he stormed Winterfell, along with Osha.) I'm lost and am starting to think I may have skipped something, but I can't imagine that I would the way I've devoured the books thus far. Can anyone help clear up this mystery for me?

Remeber, prophecies, dreams, visions etc. are never clear cut, no matter what series your reading. They're always vague and misleading. Jojen saw the sea sweeping over winterfells walls and reek cutting bran and rickons faces off. The sea (the iron islanders) did indeed come over the walls, and reek cut off the faces of the 2 children and theon told eveyrone they were bran and rickon, and they believed him. - So as far as anyone else is concearned they're both dead. So the dream did come true, just not literally.

But what about Maester Luwin? I kind of have the feeling that he knows that they weren't Bran and Rickon, but then again some of his words say elsewise. For instance, when Luwin was trying to convince Theon to take the Black he chastised him for what he did to the boys. Now why would he chastise him? Wouldn't you think that he would have given some kind of acknowledgement that he knew and appreciated that little sense of mercy.

Bran's legs were shattered in his fall, Luwin noticed that "bran's" legs were that of a healthy child, so it could not have been him. And why should he be grateful to theon for showing "mercy" to bran and rickon - by brutally murdering two other innocent children?!?

 

[hedgeknight]

Bran's legs were shattered in his fall, Luwin noticed that "bran's" legs were that of a healthy child, so it could not have been him. And why should he be grateful to theon for showing "mercy" to bran and rickon - by brutally murdering two other innocent children?!?

Because Luwin is loyal to House Stark above all else and where he might pity the murders of common folk, he is more concerned about Bran and Rickon.

I hope Theon is still alive so I can see Jon beat him to a pulp and feed him to Snow - or maybe Rickon can catch Theon and feed the piece of crap to his wolf (can't remember the name).
-g-

 

[ChasenFate]

or maybe Rickon can catch Theon and feed the piece of crap to his wolf (can't remember the name).
-g-

Summer.....Or is it Shaggy....Damn I can't remember. I think Bran's is Summer and Rickon's is Shaggy.

 

[Tyranus]

I hope Theon is still alive so I can see Jon beat him to a pulp and feed him to Snow - or maybe Rickon can catch Theon and feed the piece of crap to his wolf (can't remember the name).
-g-

Jon's wolf- Ghost
Rickon's- Shaggy Dog

 

[Dolorous Edd]

jon - Ghost
Robb - grey wind
Bran - Summer
Rickon - Shaggy Dog
Sansa - Lady
Arya - Nymeria

It's a bit like trying to remember the names of santa's reindeer aint it?

Because Luwin is loyal to House Stark above all else and where he might pity the murders of common folk, he is more concerned about Bran and Rickon.
-g-

He would have been glad they were not bran and rickon, but i cannot see him showing any gratittude to theon for that fact. It'd be like someone kidnapping a group of people, your family included, and then the kidnappers killing everyone but them. You'd be glad your loved ones were safe but you wouldn't go "Thank's guys for killing those other poor sods and sparing my family." would you?

 

[hedgeknight]

jon - Ghost
Robb - grey wind
Bran - Summer
Rickon - Shaggy Dog
Sansa - Lady
Arya - Nymeria

It's a bit like trying to remember the names of santa's reindeer aint it?

ARRGH! I didn't even get Jon Snow's wolf right! (sound of head beating against desk) And only Lady is dead, right?


He would have been glad they were not bran and rickon, but i cannot see him showing any gratittude to theon for that fact. It'd be like someone kidnapping a group of people, your family included, and then the kidnappers killing everyone but them. You'd be glad your loved ones were safe but you wouldn't go "Thank's guys for killing those other poor sods and sparing my family." would you?

Well, no, but you might thank them for sparing your family - heck D.E. - I don't know! I'm just a poor ol' reader like yourself! Gimme a break man!
Er, sorry, kinda lost it there for a minute - forgetting the name of Jon's wolf totally freaked me out! (slurp - sound of drinking coffee) Ah, that's better.
-g-

 

[Dolorous Edd]

I don't think i would tho dude. I mean if someone robbed you at knifepoint, scaring the life out of you, and then had a chage of heart half way down the road and ran back and returned it you would be glad u had it back, but you'd still want to kick the feck for scaring the hell out of you in the first place, yes?

 

[ChasenFate]

ARRGH! I didn't even get Jon Snow's wolf right! (sound of head beating against desk) And only Lady is dead, right?

Robb's wolf is dead also...Died at the Red Wedding.