Sucks to be female...

[Duff_Omathum]

I just noticed how the main female characters in a ASoIaF seem to get roughed up pretty badly.

Sansa - sexual humiliation, assualt, forced marriages, nudity.
Arya - witnesses her father's death, torture, gore, and even has time for some personal homicide.
Catelyn - witnesses her son's death, self-mutilation, madness.
Daenerys - betrayed, lied to, sexually assualted by her brother, very young marriage (barely a teen ), poisoned.

Other lucky characters include:
Elia of Dorn (Smashed baby/rape/death)
Tasha (group rape)
Lysa Arryn (mad, dupped, and then pushed off a cliff)
Shae (a prostitute strangled to death by her patron - what a man! )

Compared to that the males do alright. I notice the hero's haven't been through nearly the same kind of helpless humiliations.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Actually, considering that GRRM is trying to recreate some sense of patriarchal mediaval feudalism, I think he's achieving an important sense of realism in that regard - and as a writer, not only does he shock us with the character events, but because of his generally pretty good character building, it helps make the reader care and concern themselves for the characters more.

On that note, it's worth highlighting the fact for aspiring writers that one of the best ways to make a reader care about a character, is to make them suffer as an underdog - I think no where is this more starkly illustrated than at the opening of Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, where he emphasises the sense of suffering that Ender feels as a child. It's a superb hook to create an empathic relationship with a reader. I doubt there are many people who can read the first page of the first Ender chapter, without demanding to read page two. That's part of the skill of a good writer.

Of course, in telling an entertaining story, such sufferings then have to be balanced by a progressive ability of the character(s) in question to rise above adversity (or be avenged by others, where already killed) so that the reader is left with some sense of satisfaction in the final struggles.

 

[reruth0627]

I don't think any character, male or female, is safe in Martin's world.

***possible spoilers***




Jon - mocked repeatedly and often just for being a *******.
Samwell - constantantly harassed for being a coward and fat. Being completely disowned by his father.
Sandor - Burned by his own brother.
Jaime - Had his sword hand cut off.
Robb - Murdered and had his head cut off and his wolves head sewn on in place of it.
Tyrion - Should be obvious. No matter what he does, he's still looked at with revulsion.

That's just a few off the top of my head. There are probably more examples.

Back to the ladies: Brienne - described to be the ugliest female in Westeros.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

Martin is just given the reader insight into what the middle ages was most likely like for women

 

[Duff_Omathum]

I, Brian

I agree, Ender's Game is great example of a book that starts with suffering "I tell you he is the one!" and then hooks the reader into rooting for Ender. However, Ender always had something positive to help him see it through. There was always hope, a friend, or a new beginning. Overall the whole novel is enormously satisfying from start to finish.

My beef (and BTW, this is nitpicking, I've been really enjoying most of the series ) is that, perhaps due to sheer length, the depressing parts seem to go on quite a bit. Re-reading I found that it was mostly the female POVs (except Danny) that were getting me down.

reruth0627

Which would you choose..
1. Being mocked or sexually humiliated?
2. Losing a hand or your child?
3. Burned or Raped by 100 men at arms
Robb died instantly, Jon has friends, Jaime is the head of the kingsguard, Sandor is still pretty damn badass.

Agreed Sam/Tyrion have been through some tough times though.

Sword of Morning

Considering that in the middle ages medicine wasn't too hot, and life expectancy was pretty low (42 years in Tudor England) I would immage life for women went something like this.

1. Housekeeping (until 14 or so)
2. Get married
3. Become pregnant ASAP
4. 50/50 chance of surviving childbirth
5. Worked to death cooking and raising kids

As I said, sucks to be female...

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

1. Being mocked or sexually humiliated?
2. Losing a hand or your child?
3. Burned or Raped by 100 men at arms
Robb died instantly, Jon has friends, Jaime is the head of the kingsguard, Sandor is still pretty damn badass.

I'd say it sucks to be male as well:

Jaime: was manipulated into giving up his inheritance by Cersei, who claimed to love him. Was manipulated into marring his image and becoming the Kingslayer by his father. Had three children who he could never lay claim to. Lost his hand, after giving up all he had to be in the Kingsguard, only to realize who Cersei and his father really were. Jaime didn't just lose a hand, he lost his livelihood. The White Book is the only legacy he can lay claim to- he can't legally father any children, and he can't claim the offspring he already has.
Brandon Stark: strangled himself while trying to save his father, who was being roasted alive in his armor.
Ned Stark: lost his father, brother, and sister to extremely tragic deaths, only to have to pick up the reigns and marry a woman who loved his brother.
Tyrion: beyond being simply mocked, was reviled by his father and sister, never respected by any save Jaime, and was forced to witness the rape of the only one who ever truly loved him by several of the men who, had they been trained differently, should have respected him as their Lord.

Don't forget that Bran, Robb, and Rickon Stark have also all had their worlds torn to shreds. No matter how quickly Robb died, he still died with the knowledge that he had failed to protect his family members. And that is perhaps the most tragic thing about being a male in this series: as society has deemed that they are the stronger sex, those who take their duty seriously know that they are also responsible for protecting those they love. Imagine Ned's grief if he could see his family now, and how Jon must feel, each time a new letter arrives for him, knowing that he has sworn not to get involved.

That's the brilliance of this series. You can't simply draw a line between male and female and say this one has it worse. Regardless of what their roles are in society, they've all got a lot to lose, and they are all susceptible to the same emotions when they experience tragedy. Sure, losing a hand isn't quite as bad as losing a baby, but it hurts to lose it when it's what you've got. It's not quite black and white...