A Feast For Crows - The split, the reasoning doesn't make sense!

[Dolorous Edd]

Now, my understanding is this: GRRM has finished AFFC, but it's too long. So he and his publishers were left with 2 options: 1) publish it in two halves or 2) concentrate on one half of the characters and move the others into ADWD.



They went with the latter.



But here's my problem with that reasoning.



- If AFFC was too long, surely everything Martin planned for ADWD PLUS half the content of AFFC will also be too long. Unless ADWD was going to be extremely short (comparatively) then they're going to be stuck with the same dilemma again once he finishes ADWD.

 

[Culhwch]

No, mate. There were going to be six novels. AFfC ended up too long, so he split it in two halves, one set mostly in the South, and the next mostly in the North, thereby taking the total out to seven novels. ADwD won't be merged with anything. It's the second half by itself, and then the intended fifth novel becomes the sixth, and the sixth the seventh.

Check out this thread for more. Am trying to find the titles list, but haven't managed so far...

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Aha!



HANG ON!

The title "A Dance With Dragons" has been about for a fair few years has it not? Well before they decided to spilt AFFC and create an extra book in the series, so what about the content that was originally planned for ADWD being shuffled back, it won't relate to the title i'd have thought? Nor will the Feast stuff in ADWD either?

Also, just checked his site again and re-read the announcement. Martin says "I have finished a feast for crows, it's all done.................. The good news about the split is that ADWD is half finished"

If ADWD is just going to be the cut content of AFFC, how is it that he still has half of it to do? Apart from editing and re-shuffling chapter orders etc. it should be done?


/me is very confused now

 

[Culhwch]

I think the titles were flexible. When you think about it, A Storm of Swords could easily have been A Feast for Crows, or A Clash of Kings, for that matter. And I'd say that once he decided on the split, he went to work finishing the first half, and left the back end for once that was done, hence his Georgeness is still hard at work on Dance - finishing chapters, editing, shuffling etc.

So I believe the titles are:

A Game of Thrones
A Clash of Kings
A Storm of Swords
A Feast for Crows
A Dance of Dragons
A Time for Wolves
The Winds of Winter

Though the last two may be switched around, not sure....

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

At the end of the day, A Dance of Dragons is merely the title of the 5th book. If it will now contain stuff from AFfC then whatever can't fit into book 5 will go into book 6.
I see where you're going with this premise but the books aren't written yet so he can do what he likes. He is the author after all....

It will probably mean that we will definately not see Dany in Westeros before book 6 though...

 

[Boaz]

Are you sure they are not...

The Qartheen Strike Back
Revenge of the Freys
Attack of the Others
Return of the Kingsguard
The Spider Menace

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm under the impression that as well as size, publisher deadlines were also a concern - ie having something in print within a certain time period.

 

[Boaz]

Yes, but when you are riding the Martin gravy train... well, you tend to not pressure him like you would an unknown author.

 

[MSBorba]

The decision to split the book, not chronologically (as Martin has stated he preferred), but based on region/POV, I believe puts too much pressure, even for a genius like Martin.

Here is an author who has completed a book, albeit, too big. Instead of a clean cut, the publisher convinces Martin to divide it up by region/POV. So he does just that. The problem is Martin's POV's for the first three novels were simply genius, how he was able to maintain multiple plots and sub-plots, while moving the story forward through time.

So Martin has to shuffle all these masterfully-placed POV's, so that he could divide the book regionally/POV. Then he is expected to do the same with Dance with Dragons, to tell Dany's and the rest POV's. In my humble opinion, these two up-coming books, A Feast and A Dance, will be broken, to a certain extent.

Broken, not from a story flow, because one can just as easily read each POV, one-at-a-time and enjoy Martin's story. Broken because each POV has little clues as to what is taking place elsewhere in Martin's world. Instead of being able to follow these clues and plot leads as intended, we will be forced to wait for Dance with Dragons. Like I said, I don't believe even Martin himself can possibly make this work for me, especially since he had very little time to shuffle the POV's.

The bottom-line: I feel cheated not to be able to flow through the story, as the author intended....not as the publisher preferred.

 

[Boaz]

The bottom-line: I feel cheated not to be able to flow through the story, as the author intended....not as the publisher preferred.

Very succinct.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

The bottom-line: I feel cheated not to be able to flow through the story, as the author intended....not as the publisher preferred.

Let's not put the cart before the horse, MSBorba. None of us have read it yet, so we can't be disappointed or thrilled until the final reading. I say, save your judgement until you've read it. Or, if you're quite convinced that you'll hate it the way it's broken up, you could always wait until ADWD comes out, and then read it in your own particular order.

 

[MSBorba]

Miss AryaUnderfoot,

Don't get me wrong. I will enjoy the books and read them as soon as I can get my hands on them. I was just trying to express my displeasure with the decision on how they broke up the book. I would have much rather preferred a chronological break as opposed to by region/POV.

I agree, we will all have to wait until we read the two books, before we can truly lay judgement.

 

[Culhwch]

Here is an author who has completed a book, albeit, too big. Instead of a clean cut, the publisher convinces Martin to divide it up by region/POV. So he does just that.

Where do you get this info from, MSBorba? I was under the impression that the decision was a mutual one between George and his publishers, with George, if anyone, pushing for a geographic rather than chronilogical split. Or at least preferring the geographic split....

 

[Boaz]

I have thouroughly enjoyed Martin's ASOIAF, it has been a feast so far. Truly. He has left us all wanting more and more. Now we hear that the format for the next two books has been changed and I feel 1) like a spoiled brat for complaining (Martin has shown that he does not disappoint) and 2) let down that I'm not getting what I've been waiting for after being a loyal, patient, and financially supportive customer for six years.

My biggest fear is that I'll have to wait for ADWD to get the Tyrion POV again. My second concern is that the POVs in AFFC will give spoilers and not titillating teasers to pique my interest and tide me over until ADWD is released. The third thing I am afraid of is that Martin will take eighteen months off from writing because he's exhausted from pushing to finish AFFC and I will not see ADWD on bookshelves until 2009.

A fourth frustration is that it seems that the publisher is forcing the artist to change his art. Perhaps, this is unfounded and Martin whole heartedly agrees with the division... but this change seems to come as a major shift in the presentation halfway through the story. I did not find out until about eight years ago that Tolkien's LOTR was designed to be published as one volume, but the publisher talked him into three.

I don't mean to be disparaging or sound like I am the fount of wisdom in the publishing world. Only LOTR and Narnia have been better series, imo.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I'm going to give GRRM the benefit of the doubt with this whole divided book idea. He's done very well so far with regards to not letting too much information slip into his previous books. If he and the publishers came to an agreement to split the book, I'm betting that part of the delay was making sure that the first volume had nothing in it that would betray plot twists to come. He's put a lot of time and effort into creating a great story for himself and his readers. He's not going to ruin it by being obvious.

I'd also like to point out that the significance of many of the little hints he has previously worked in to the plot have been discovered (at least by myself) while reading the next book in the series and then returning for a re-read. (For example when Arya comes across Varys and Magister Illyrio in the dragon skull room- I didn't know what that was all about until after I had read the other two books in the series.)

 

[MSBorba]

Where do you get this info from, MSBorba? I was under the impression that the decision was a mutual one between George and his publishers, with George, if anyone, pushing for a geographic rather than chronilogical split. Or at least preferring the geographic split....

Culhwch,

After reading your reply, I went back and re-read Martin's update...you are absolutely correct. My bad. I mis-read his statement below.

"We decided not to do that. It was my feeling -- and I pushed hard for this, so if you don't like the solution, blame me, not my publishers -- that we were better off telling all the story for half the characters, rather than half the story for all the characters."

Since it was indeed Martin's push to split the novel by region/POV, I'm with Aryaunderfoot. There is no reason to feel Martin won't produce two books which we will all find fantastic reads. I am glad Culhwch's reply made me re-read Martin's update.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

the whole split issue does not seem concering as long as the next book comes out early 2006.

 

[Duff_Omathum]

At first, I wasn't too keen on the split idea, but over time I've come to agree that this is good thing from both a narative perspective and a marketing one.

From a story-telling standpoint, I think splitting the book according to characters is in line with his POV driven style and certainly has precident. Tolkien split his LoTR into parts Frodo&Sam (East) The Rest of the Fellowship (West), and there are other great series out there which are essentially set in the same timeline but from different perspectives.

From a marketing standpoint, it seems a slam-dunk too. I expect we, the fans, are going to be hopping up and down awaiting the 'the other half' of the tale. To NOT buy it would be like chips without the sauce.

He's a sneaky old coger Mr GRRM!

 

[Boaz]

How does everyone feel now?

Personally, I feel MSBorba was right... it's good, but I feel cheated without the chronological story.

 

[ChasenFate]

I enjoyed the story overall, I do wish some of the other POV's were in there. We just need to have faith that Martin did the right thing.