Pate

[Trey Greyjoy]

So what does everyone think happened to Pate?
In the prologue it seemed clear to me that he met his end, and yet he interacted with Samwell at the end of the novel.
Has he been replaced by someone or something? If so, then what?
Who was the mystery man he met?
(or was this something that was obvious to everyone but me?? )

Discuss!

 

[Transplanted Steeler]

I think the Pate at the end is an imposter. Maybe the alchemist is a Faceless Man?

 

[ChasenFate]

You know, it is weird how somethings just don't register at first. That is why I need to read this book again, so I can go back and catch things I missed due to long days and late night reading.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I think that Pate is Jaqen H'gar. After all, as someone else already pointed out in another thread, the face of the man who kills Pate in the beginning is pretty much exactly that of Jaqen H'gar when he leaves Arya after fulfilling his obligations to her.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Well, either Jaqen or another Faceless Man, the original Pate is definately dead though IMO.

Just a thought - do the Faceless Men have a creed or answer to anyone?
They seem like a seperate force, but then why would they get involve in Westeros - to what end? Who are they working for???

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

I think that Pate is Jaqen H'gar. After all, as someone else already pointed out in another thread, the face of the man who kills Pate in the beginning is pretty much exactly that of Jaqen H'gar when he leaves Arya after fulfilling his obligations to her.

excellent catch!
I just double checked and the descriptions are pretty much dead on in agreement with each other.
So you think Jaqen can not only just alter his own appearance, but can completely morph to match the appearance of someone else!? !?

That sure could come in handy should Arya learn it..........

 

[Culhwch]

Well, either Jaqen or another Faceless Man, the original Pate is definately dead though IMO.

Just a thought - do the Faceless Men have a creed or answer to anyone?
They seem like a seperate force, but then why would they get involve in Westeros - to what end? Who are they working for???

If anyone I'd say Varys and Illyrio, or in turn whoever they are working for...

 

[Sword of the Morning]

The real Pate is most likely stuffed into a barrel of some fearsomely strong cider.

The new Pate is the faceless man formly know was Jaqen H'gar.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Well, either Jaqen or another Faceless Man, the original Pate is definately dead though IMO.

Just a thought - do the Faceless Men have a creed or answer to anyone?
They seem like a seperate force, but then why would they get involve in Westeros - to what end? Who are they working for???

I've pondered before on why Vary's and illyrio are showing so much loyalty to the targaryen dynasty, and i still think there's some sort of secret society in the free cities and beyond that are aware of the prophecy of the prince and the threat of the others. Whether the faceless men are a part of this society or merely working on it's behalf, i have no idea.

 

[Transplanted Steeler]

I've pondered before on why Vary's and illyrio are showing so much loyalty to the targaryen dynasty, and i still think there's some sort of secret society in the free cities and beyond that are aware of the prophecy of the prince and the threat of the others. Whether the faceless men are a part of this society or merely working on it's behalf, i have no idea.

I completely agree. I'm fairly certain that Varys and Illyrio know that Dany is the fulfillment of the prophecy. The dragon eggs came from Illyrio, of course.

I wonder how on earth Jaqen H'gar came to be in the dungeon in King's Landing. He's a pretty tough guy to lock up. Maybe he was planted there so he'd wind up with Yoren? This could be a Varys / Faceless Men connection.

 

[Riva]

Could they be called the faceless men, because they can take other persons face features. Hmm, this is an interesting thought that i just had. I remember the kindly man telling Arya how she needs to learn to control her face muscles. Maybe the faceless men can modify their face muscles so they look much like some other man?

 

[Transplanted Steeler]

I've pondered before on why Vary's and illyrio are showing so much loyalty to the targaryen dynasty, and i still think there's some sort of secret society in the free cities and beyond that are aware of the prophecy of the prince and the threat of the others. Whether the faceless men are a part of this society or merely working on it's behalf, i have no idea.

I wonder if Prince Doran is in league with Varys and Illyrio.

 

[Boaz]

It seems that Doran had planned to marry Arianne to Viserys ever since Robert's rebellion. This is why Arianne thought she was being denied her birthright... the inheritance of Dorne. But since Viserys' death and Dany's emergence in Slaver's Bay, Doran has schemed to marry Quentyn to Dany. I don't know how Doran would have planned to arrange these marriages except through Magister Illyrio of Pentos.

 

[Culhwch]

Could they be called the faceless men, because they can take other persons face features. Hmm, this is an interesting thought that i just had. I remember the kindly man telling Arya how she needs to learn to control her face muscles. Maybe the faceless men can modify their face muscles so they look much like some other man?

For want of a better word, I'd say it's magical rather than physical. Remember, Jaqen changed his hair as well as his face when he left Arya at Harrenhal. Not something easily done by the musculature of the face, I feel.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I always figured that "Faceless" referred to the fact that they've given up all of themselves, that they are nobody.

 

[JohnSnow]

I am glad this came up. In my mind I saw Pate as a younger smaller boy and that would be more than a face and hair change for Jaqen H'gar. But after re-reading the first and last chapters I must say that it lends one to assume that Pate is no longer "lusting for Rosey Pate." He has to have been replaced, but the question now is how entwined are thefaceless men and the measters? Or is Marwyn another transplanted faceless man?
Or did I just miss something...

js

 

[Jinglehopper]

This is a great notion. The new Pate may not necessarily be Jaqen, but he has definitely been replaced by a Faceless Man. That's one of those details that I didn't realise until I read this board. Then it just clicks and I'm like, "ohhh"

Ps. The faceless changing appearance is magical I believe. Consider the mask of evil the quiet old man shows Arya. That was not just muscles moving.

 

[asdar]

I think the changing faces is a mix of magical and physical.

This brings out the whole thing that I find fascinating and that's the conspiracies behind the thrones. A Game of Thrones was for nobles but who are the people behind the scene.

Who does Varys call master, or who calls him master. Are the faceless men and the Maesters in opposition or alliance and are they with Varys or against.

You've gotta love a series with so much going on behind the scenes and yet the scenes are captivating.

 

[Niolani]

I too think it's a faceless man, maybe Jaqen, because of when Pate asks him who he is he says "A stranger. No one. Truly" which is in line with what Arya is learning over at The House of Black and White.