Littlefinger

[Brian G Turner]

*** SPOILERS! ***



Littlefinger is one of those characters a lot of people seem to either love or hate.

Personally, I really like the character.

He's intelligent and resourceful, and clever enough to allow other characters to not simply need him, but also underestimate him.

It seems that fact that he was tied into events at Kings Landing that led to Ned Stark's death have been held against him by some readers - but the moment Ned revealed to Cersei that he knew what was going on with Jaime ensured that Ned was in trouble.

When Littlefinger pushed Lysa out of the moon door was a great moment - I was concerned we'd see events in the Eeyrie dragged out, so it was good to see matters quickly dealt with - and Petyr did the right thing, yes?

Then - jumping forward to A Feast For Crows - there's the excellent end scene where he lays out his plans for his "natural daughter" - not simply of marrying her to the prospective heir to the Vale of Arryn, but also the coup-de-grace of offering to unveil her true heritage on her wedding day, if she could get that far.

Go Petyr!

 

[Culhwch]

I dislike him, and I still feel he is not the power player he makes himself out to be. Everything is going to come down around him, and he'll find himself at the wrong end of a noose.

But, then, I've been wrong (on the odd occasion) before.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Littlefinger's obsession with Catelyn will probably prove to be his fatal weakness. His rescue of Sansa had to be motivated purely by his love for Cat because Sansa is not essential to his ambitions (whatever those ambitions might be). Now she is the only person who knows the truth of both Jon and Lysa Arryn's deaths, and she is one of only a few that know the truth of Joffrey's murder. Littlefinger has to know she has the upper hand if she ever finds reason to turn on him. The fact that Jon Arryn's death directly led to the destruction of her entire family will not be lost on her forever. Killing her would be his best option, but he is not going to do that. His other option is to keep up his image as her benefactor and hope that she doesn't realize Winterfell is a tainted prize that he is responsible for destroying. My guess? Sansa will wise up, play the naive girl, take everything she can and turn on him.

 

[Adasunshine]

I'm not sure about Littlefinger. He seems to have all these plans for Sansa but his obsession with Catelyn doesn't bode well for the wee lassie! I think in every book it's mentioned how Sansa is a more beautiful and younger version of Cat, call me morbid but I can't see how Littlefinger isn't going to try and get his way with her, it's already starting with the little kisses here and there, from what I can see, it's only going to get worse...

Maybe I'm wrong, as everyone who's read his work knows, Mr Martin keeps the surprises coming so maybe Littlefinger can bypass his obsession and give Sansa Winterfell and the Vale without wanting more from her.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

My reaction to Littlefinger is much the same as many of the characters' reactions to him: I find him very charming, but he makes me uneasy. He's just a little too slick at times.

Question: Does Sansa know the truth about Jon Arryn? I don't remember...

 

[YOSSARIAN]

I believe Sansa is still in the cell when Lysa spills the beans.

 

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

Didn't Lysa spill the beans during her mad attempt to puch Sansa out the moon door?
I agree that Petyr's judgment is slightly crazed regarding Catelyn, I just can't shake the feeling that he will end up forcing Sansa to offer her maidenhood to him. He had Lysa's, and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Lysa trick him into thinking he got Cat's as well when really it was still her? He enjoys the thought of Sansa being his daughter with Cat too much, I recall him saying something to her in private along the lines of she got her beauty from her mother and his intelligence or something. But sooner or later I don't think it will be enough for him, I can't help but think he is only arranging the marriage for her etc. so she will feel grateful towards him and possibly come to him willingly although I highly doubt she will. Hopefully the Henry guy will be better to her than Joffrey was (as if that means much) and it will give them a chance to have real love untainted by the prospect of what lands she could bring him, she's bound to like that. Personally I hope he gets captured by Stoneheart, or when he tries to force Sansa Brienne will come to her rescue, if the wariior maiden still lives that is.

 

[Boaz]

Where are Littlefinger's ultimate loyalties? Not with the Baratheons, the Arryns, nor the Lannisters.

The Baelishes claim to nobility only goes back a few generations, iirc. Who raised them to nobility? Either the Arryns or the Targaryens. We know that Petyr murderd Jon and Lysa Arryn and now holds their son.

The Baelishes were dirt poor with no connections, how was it that Petyr was fostered with Hoster Tully, one of the great lords of the realm? Either the Arryns, Baelishes, or Targaryens arranged it. It seems to me that the Targaryens raised the Tullys from average nobility to one of the seven great houses.

When Petyr fell in love with Catelyn, who prevented him from courting her? The Starks. The Targaryens killed Rickard, Brandon, and Lyanna Stark... no doubt this pleased Littlefinger.

We now know that Lord Baelish 1) got rid of Jon Arryn, 2) attempted to frame Tyrion Lannister for the attempted murder of Bran Stark, 3) tried to prevent Robert from having Danaerys Targaryen assassinated, 4) permitted, if not assisted in the death of Robert Baratheon, 5) betrayed Ned Stark, 6) worked against Stannis' and Renly's attempts to gain the throne, 7) sold out Joffrey to the Tyrells, 8) kidnapped Sansa Stark, the heir to Winterfell, 9) stole custody of The Vale, and 10) is working on the downfall of Cersei Lannister.

Why is he doing all of this? He hates the Starks, he's betrayed the Arryns, he's denied the Baratheons, he's betrayed the Lannisters, he's betrayed the Tullys, he's done nothing for or against the Martells and Greyjoys, he's assisted the Tyrells (I'm sure for an unnamed price), and yet he's helped the Targaryens for free.

Could Littlefinger secretly be a Targaryen loyalist or is he doing all this for himself?

The two most clever councillors to the realm are/were Littlfinger and Varys. Each publicly and privately admitted to despising the other. But I assume the Varys is dedicated to the return of House Targaryen, so perhaps the two sneakiest members of the Small Council were actually in alliance.

Perhaps Littlefinger is doing all this for himself. If he assists Dany in her return, he'll expect rewards. If Dany is still unmarried, she'd need to take a husband from among her subjects to help insure their loyalty. The Lord of Harrenhal and the (adoptive) father of the Lord of the Vale might be a match for the queen... if she married a son of one of the great houses, then the others would be very jealous and suspicious.

 

[Raven]

Boaz:

The Baelishes were dirt poor with no connections, how was it that Petyr was fostered with Hoster Tully, one of the great lords of the realm? Either the Arryns, Baelishes, or Targaryens arranged it.

This was answered recently. I'll need to look it up, though. Basically Hoster met and befriended LF's father during one of the wars (might've been the Ninepenny Kings thing) and owed him a favour, which Lord Baelish senior cashed in by having LF fostered at Riverrun.

ETA - here's the info:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/SSM03l.html

Event Date: November 18, 2005
Reporter: Jon Targaryen


In response to the why was LF fostered at Riverrun when he was a insignificant lord question: GRRM said that Petyr's father and Hoster met up during the War of the Ninepenny Kings and became friends. Apparently that was a time when a lot of people from all over the realm forged friendships. LF's dad later "cashed in" on the friendship to get LF fostered at Riverrun.

 

[Maya]

I have grudging admiration for littlefinger's sneakiness, he is a grand master player in the game of thrones. I doubt very much that he is loyal to anyone but himself, changing loyalties wherever necessary - as Ned found out. Littlefinger is most likely keeping track of Danny's world domination progress, as I think in a AFFC he says to Sansa something like, "will the Kingdom survive the clash of the three queens?", which I believe to be Cersei, Margery and Danny (i can't think of any other queens?)

I think (and hope) that LF's downfall will ultimately be Sansa. Although I am not sure how it can happen as Sansa seems so helpless and naive but Danny started from a similar position and look at her now.

I hope that when LF has "trained her up", at the last minute something will finally cause Sansa to act against him. Whether this would be saving sweet robin from being bumped off by LF (although he is soooo annoying, he is still a little boy), or I hope she finally finds out LF's treachery against her father and that will be the final straw(i'm not sure who would inform her though).

Another clue given in one of the prophecies of the ghost if high heart says,
"I dreamt of a maid at a feast, with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow"

Although you can take this for the mundane meaning of the savage giant being robert's doll, which sansa tore apart after robert used it to smash her snow castle, why would the ghost mention something so trivial? I think that the giant refers to littlefinger, who although is not a giant in size, is a giant in the game of thrones, and of course lives in a castle in the snowy moutaintops.

 

[Boaz]

Maya, Welcome! Good post.

As to whom the giant represents, well it may be Baelish at the Eyrie, it may be Ramsay Bolton at Winterfell, or it may be Stannis or Jon on the Wall. Then again the physical giants in the story are Gregor, Sandor, Hodor, and Mord. I'm gonna keep an open mind on this one.

Raven, thanks for the info. I was guessing that Aerys might have owed Baelish a favor.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Good observation maya!

LF doesn't fit the tag of "savage giant" though IMO. He's vindictive certainly,wicked,yes, cruel, sometimes - But "savage" implies a certain loss of control, and i think he's one of the most "in control" people in the series. he's all cold calculation.

What about gregor though? he'd fit the bill, especially after his poisoning and whatever the hell qyburn did to him. Maybe sandor will go after sansa, and gregor will go after sandor - leading to an inevitable confrontation at the erie. And Sansa will end up killing gregor when he has sandor at his mercy, robbing sandor of the one thing he yearn's for most in life - to finally best his brother and take revenge. But perhaps since meeting sansa his life has been about more then vengance, maybe with his brother dead he'll at last be able to let go of some of that colosul anger of his.

 

[Maya]

LF doesn't fit the tag of "savage giant".

Point taken, "savage" is perhaps the wrong description of LF's personality. The whole idea of Sansa defeating LF and becoming a kick-ass bitch like her sister is perhaps a little wishful thinking on my part! ;o)

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Point taken, "savage" is perhaps the wrong description of LF's personality. The whole idea of Sansa defeating LF and becoming a kick-ass bitch like her sister is perhaps a little wishful thinking on my part! ;o)

Oh no, i agree with you that Sansa is the most likely person to cause LF's downfall, and i expect she will. I just don't think that that prophecy, or vision, or whatever it was was about LF.

 

[Boaz]

It seems Martin is using the Hobbits to defeat Sauron. What I mean is that the last ones that Sauron suspected could have caused his downfall, were exactly the ones to do it... and Dorothy, Pug/Melamber, Thomas Covenant, Harry Potter, Shea Ohmsford, and a host of other fantasy little people have followed suit. Could Tywin, Eddard, and Stannis have foreseen that a hedgenoble (Littlefinger), a ******* steward on the Wall (Jon), and a dwarf (Tyrion) would join them and even surpass them in The Game Of Thrones? Now the question is... who will Littlefinger, Jon, and Tyrion overlook? Bran? Gendry? Bronn? Jeyne Westerling? Hodor?

Can't wait for more David and Goliath.

 

[TK-421]

Bran maybe, Arya certainly. Add to the list Jaime, Dany, Doran Martell, Asha, Theon, Sansa and Sandor.

 

[Kendack]

Vote for Hodor! Hodor for the iron throne!

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Bran maybe, Arya certainly. Add to the list Jaime, Dany, Doran Martell, Asha, Theon, Sansa and Sandor.

Hmmm. It would be pretty cool if Arya were the one to save Sansa from Littlefinger.

 

[aemon]

strange i got the impression that sansa was quite happy with littlefinger.

 

[Tom O'Sevens]

One thing I've noticed about Littlefinger is that he seems to have somewhat of a vendetta against Tyrion Lannister. Whenever he's needs to implicate someone in one of his schemes, he attempts to set up the Imp as 'fall-guy' whenever possible. The dagger in 'Game of Thrones', Joffery's wedding; I also wouldn't be at all surprised if Littlefinger wasn't at some level maniplulating Stannis' attack on King's Landing in 'Clash of Kings' which ended Tyrion's control and almost cost him his life. Now Littlefinger has casually remarked to Sansa/Alayne about arranging another attempt on Tyrion's life...

Consider this however when wondering what may turn Sansa against Lord Baelish, the other person in the vale who's had a big impact on her life - Mya Stone. Now we all know who Mya's father was... should Lord Baelish attempt hasten young Robert Arryn's demise maybe we may see a few familial debts being repaid?