Addiction?

[sisinaflower]

I first read A Game of Thrones when my friend recommended it to me. She is a university English Lit teacher and had never read fantasy and someone else recommended this book to her. She couldnt put it down. Now she refuses to read the rest because she says she KNOWS they will seriously interfere with her work! She sent the first one on to me, I read it, and I couldnt put it down. Unlike her, I have read all through A Feast for Crows. Couldnt help myself! I have read some fantasy previous to this as a child (Tolkein, Lewis, le Guin, McCaffery, etc), but none have gripped me like this series.

And I see online that these books have gripped others even more than myself! Fascinating. I have read posts here contemplating the qualities that have made these books so successful, but beyond that, I am trying to work out what makes them so special that people want to live the lives, that people cant satiate their hunger for more, that they give people the feeling of knowing the characters so well that they are a part of the same world. I have had dreams about some of these characters for pete's sake, and I have never thought of myself as a Fantasy addict (the first step is acknowledgement?)!

I will confess I am a psychologist, so my interest is almost professional...but I am curious what others think has made these books so addictive for so many.

 

[the_faery_queen]

i think people like them because there is so much to it. we have characters with depths, that people love or hate, and they get so invovled with them they become desperate to know more about what is happening to them. we also have all these twists and maybe this means that, that people get wrapped up in. like a mystery. and i think people want to see it solved, so they read it to find out more.

and they're just brilliant

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Hi Sisinaflower & welcome to the forums

Glad you enjoyed GRRM's recent series as well. As for being addictive - well, everyone loves a good story and this is precisely that. Intrigue, treachery, war, love, death & loss. It makes for compelling narrative. Also, I wouldn't limit this just to fantasy & sci-fi (one of my pet peeves are people going "How can that be good? It's a fantasy book?" ). A good story is a good story no matter what it's participants are.

I hope to entice you to some other good stories out there too

 

[the_faery_queen]

totally. that's why i often think martin's book is accessable, more than many other fantasy books, because despite the dragonms and magic, its mostly politics and characters that drive it. i think anyone can relate to and understand what's going on, and enjoy it. it has none of the quest/magic/ that might put off nonfantasy fans.

 

[sisinaflower]

Hello faery queen and Winters Sorrow! Thanks for the thoughts. My english lit friend and I have tried to work it out as well, and wonder if some of it has to do with the low level of 'fantasy' involved in the books. With fantasy I have read before I found I really enjoyed it, but it was hard to relate to, and on occasion took a while to get into because of all the new creatures/unusual names to get used to. In this series we can immediately slip into the story. But Im not convinced this is the whole story (as it were...)

My friend wondered if there is an element of 'costume drama' appeal--after all the books seem more 'historical fiction' than fantasy and costume drama is certainly a sure bet for reeling in the viewers (again though, why?); we see in the TV listings everything from Rome to Pride and Prejudice over the past few years.

From a psychology perspective I wonder if the number of characters, with their very different personalities, appeals in a way that role play games do--each reader can relate to at least one character...possibly? And even feel so in tuned with some of the characters that the reader feels a part of the story themselves. Just a theory. Do any of these ideas strike a chord?

 

[the_faery_queen]

i think thats a strong likeihood. i mean, take cersi (one of my favs) she is a sterotype at heart, as are a few of the characters, maybe all! she is the cold queen, the snow queen type figure. BUT martin went to extents to paint her, to give her motives. he may not like her himself, but i do. i can see things in her that i associate with me. not the abuse, not the cruetly, and not the sexualty, BUT i can see her struggle to have some position in a male world, her fight to be taken seriously, to have power, to be her own person, i can relate to all of that. so yeah, i think there are elements in teh cahracters we can relate to. thats why i think we care about them so much

 

[MSBorba]

Martin's series is brilliant to me in various ways. First of all, up until discovering ASoI&F, I had never read a fantasy novel which didn't conform to the standard good vs evil mold. In fact, Martin does just the opposite, he successfully paints these colorful characters in his novels, not black and white, but brown. He does this brilliantly through his POV chapters (which I find absolutely genius!), where the the story and characters are developed through various perspectives. You get a sense of Ned Stark's character not only from his point-of-view, but also from various other character's point-of-views. This allows various aspects of a character's personality, both good and bad, to be fleshed out.

Second, low magic vs historical feel. You get a sense of magic playing a greater role as the story unfolds, but even so, it continues to be extremely low magic when compared to other fantasy novels. This is a major plus for me because the lower the magic...the greater the historical feel.

Third, Martin's World: Martin is a wonderful writer and as all great writers is able to take you places. He has fleshed out a world and its histories making it seem as if this was part of our actual history. I enjoyed learning more about Dorne in the fourth book and I'm sure in the future we'll get to know more about other locals that we know exist in Martin's World, but have only been offered teases.

Finally, the politics and intrigue. I can't believe a writer can juggle all the scheming and politics taking place in the story and not screw something up. He must have a well established system to keep track of what he's trying to accomplish, because it is seemingly impossible to have it all in his head. Above all else, this is by far the most impressive aspect of Martin's books.

I can't wait for A Dance with Dragons!!

 

[sisinaflower]

Yes, all very good points. Early in the series I was simply enthralled by the story, but now I am eager to see how the threads tie up (or are cut short, as Martin does so well, with such surprise--shoves predictability out the window!). For example I am interested in the three headed dragon and interested in the increasing importance of female characters like Sansa and Arya and even Asha, how will they tie in with the -- what appears to be -- increasingly important female lead of Danaerys (--but appearances are deceptive in these books...!).

So although my vocational tendency is to analyse with a psychological perspective (because its fun and gives an interesting depth to an experience), I am really just enjoying these books for what they give superficially-- excellent escapism!

 

[sisinaflower]

Faery Queen...

...as for who I might relate to...I love several of the characters for different reasons (and even the nasty characters I enjoy as works of art!), and there are several characters I would love to be like, such as Asha.

But the one I am most like is probably Catelyn (before the 'resurrection'!). She is loyal and intelligent and fierce when provoked without being wicked, not overly fascinating though, and her weakness is in the compromises she has made, which have prevented her from growing in the ways others might have, her achilles heel was her love for her children which prevented her from making the best decisions. Her new personality is just a distilled version of the aspects of her former self that were her weaknesses--her blind rage against those who she believed destroyed House Stark is now what seems to keep her 'alive'. I can understand that as well, even though it makes me really frustrated reading it (and poor, confused Brienne!).

Ironically, her pov was the one I least enjoyed because I was most irritated and frustrated by her (we see our own weaknesses in others!).

 

[Tears of Lys]

Because there haven't been any happy endings yet, major characters die, you care about the ones that have, and the ones that have yet to kick it become even more important to you. It's real. People are just hanging on these books because we have to find out if everything ends as wretched as it seems to be going, if theres a book where the bad guy prevails. Oh goodness I would love that. Might I have some more tragedy, please?
Characters that could really exist, a story that (mostly) could've happened somewhere.

And knights.

 

[Shoegaze99]

I am curious what others think has made these books so addictive for so many.

My wife thinks the opium I take before each reading session may be a contributing factor, but I think she's full of shiat.

 

[Sword of the Morning]

I am curious what others think has made these books so addictive for so many.

First off many of the characters come across at least to me to be real. They have internal issues which in turn govern their external actions, like Cersei trying to the the man of the family and to be like Tywin. Each character is niether overly good or evil, but a mix, and that some characters can progress from an evil scum bag into one of favorite Pov, that being Jaime. Here is the big thing for me-any character can be killed off showing vulnerablility, unlike say Robert Jordon's characters.

Secondly the point of view story telling is addictive. I would find myself flipping pages to see when Bran's pov would come up. Third the foreshadowing and the fact that some many aspects of the story have not been told keeps my mind trying to 1) figure all the loss ends out 2) place everything in order so i could 3) solve the puzzle that is A Song of Ice and Fire.

 

[TK-421]

These books are just plain good. But they are also ones that you can talk about with others who have read the series and there always seems to be a new POV or event, foreshadowing, ect. to discuss. This is lacking in most other fantasay series. I certainly did not feel this while reading the Shanara series. I am reading the Deverry series by Katherine Kerr right now and they are pretty good as well, but not even close to GRRM and ASOIF. Just happy that GRRM got into what his Dad use to call "all that weird stuff".

 

[napthali]

For me its that the characters are so multi dimensional...almost no one is purely evil (there are some exceptions) and the good characters are not always good. I really can't think of one character who would qualify for a "halo". It makes the characters more realistic...because no one is really good or evil 100% of the time. I mean look at Ned Stark..he's the epitome of all that is good...but when I look at him through Jamie's eyes..I see that even he had some major flaws.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Welcome to the forums.

As to why they're doing so well - I guess the primary reason is character development - even characters who have little direct impact on the story are engaging and accessible because they are well crafted, as are their individual experiences.

I also think ASoFaI *may* also plug a gap that existed for more mature readers, who needed something with a greater emphasis on realism and gritty experience.

In that regard, use of magic in fantasy can be read as awkwardly handled and even too deus ex machina, better suited for younger readers in many instances.

Even Lord of the Rings, the quintessential fantasy masterwork, has a very limited use of magic - certainly compared to current literature in the genre, IMO.

Less is more in this instance, perhaps.

2c, but feel free to disagree.

 

[Ser Clynten]

Hey, this is my frist post, but I've been a lurker for awhile here, and on many other GRRM forums. I was recommended the books by a friend who said they were good but nothing special, and wouldn't compare to my then-favourite Black Company.

I went out and picked up AGoT and thought it was excellent. My friend had said it was the best one though, so I was sorta disheartened. I also disliked Ned Stark, and it seemed like it was too focused on him.

However, the next two totally blew any other books I'd ever read out of the water. I read the last half of SoS in one sitting.

This was about six months ago, and I now spend at least two hours a day re-reading the books, reading theories online about the books, debating hte books with friends, and engaging in other activities revolving around ASoIF. I have three hounds on a yellow field tattooed on one side of my chest.

I'd say it's more an addiction than Everquest, World of Warcraft, drugs, and alchohol ever were to me. I wonder if anybody has ever had to have an Ice and Fire intervention?

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Hi Ser Clynten.
Why not take a stroll down to the GRRM section of the forum. Lots of conspiracy theories on there to get your teeth into.

Good to see another Glen Cook fan too, btw

 

[red_temple]

Welcome, Ser Clynten.

And if being addicted to ASoIaF is wrong, then I don't wanna be right...

That's funny about the tatoo. I wanted to get one of the Hound's sigil as well, but my wife wouldn't let me. Not that she's against tatoos or anything; it's just that she's against tatoos on me.

 

[genisis2]

Ill keep this brief but at some point everyone has basicly made a comment that I wanted to say. I have read a lot of fantasy but GRRM continues to surprise me & just when I think he's going in one direction the bloody guy pulls the rug from under me.

 

[GhostShell]

I think they're addictive because of the full world and realistic characters.
Almost like why people are interested in soaps, the characters seem that real.