Arianne Martell - Spoilers & Speculation

[Boaz]

American hardback, page 192, Arys Oakheart thinks of Arianne... She has more of her uncle in her than her father.

Remember how Ned pieced Cersei's adultery together from Sansa's remark? Mayhaps Arianne is a sand snake, but does not know it.

Now from father to lover... page 299. Arianne remembers...

I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me... a tall hard man with black eyes and a widow's peak.

The man she imagined sounds like Oberyn.

What exactly was her relationship with the Red Viper?

 

[viZion]

Oberyn is nuts but I never felt like he disrespected his brother and certainly not enough to go sleeping with his wife. Not like, say, Black Walder who is portrayed as a sleezeball from the first.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

American hardback, page 192, Arys Oakheart thinks of Arianne... She has more of her uncle in her than her father.

Remember how Ned pieced Cersei's adultery together from Sansa's remark? Mayhaps Arianne is a sand snake, but does not know it.

Now from father to lover... page 299. Arianne remembers...

I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me... a tall hard man with black eyes and a widow's peak.

The man she imagined sounds like Oberyn.

What exactly was her relationship with the Red Viper?

Yeah I noticed that as well about Arianne day dreaming about doing her uncle. Probably just a young girl dreaming about what her ideal "man" should be, but yah it raised my eyebrows too.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Doran's plan to marry Arianne to Viserys was underway at least around the time of ten (can't remember exact age) because she tells Arys that when she was young she found a note from Doran telling his son how he would sit in his place as ruler of Dorne one day.

Doran then sent his son to Dany and now plans for Arianne to be on the throne of Dorne now. Remember, she is the eldest in any case, whether Quentyn marries Dany or does not.

Doran also swears to her that she will replace him when he dies and that what they are bringing back is vengeance, fire and blood. I.e. Dany and her Dragons.

Also, I believe originally, that Doran and Mopatis were the ones who were arranging Arianne's and Viserys marriage and that Viserys had no clue of it. Perhaps Dany's marriage to Khal was a backup of force for Dorne as stated in other posts above or also a contingency plan.

 

[MemmoN]

"I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me... a tall hard man with black eyes and a widow's peak."


Sounds like a fitting description of Darkstar, right down to the widows peak. I think they also had a relationship or were at least "good" friends.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Why would Arianna be promised to Viserys if he were to wed Dany, as the Targs always married their sisters? Was she to be one of the Dragon's three heads?

 

[Charming Serpent]

Viserys marrying Dany would bring him nothing. Viserys marrying a princess of Dorne brings him an army and staging ground to reclaim a throne. He wanted nothing more than that. Hence him letting his sister be practically sold to the Dothraki for an Army. I stated in another post that I do not believe Viserys personally knew about the Dorne promise. He was too crazy to trust with info like that. He might go rambling one night all drunk and rant and rave about how Dorne will rise with him etc etc.. and at that time Mormont was a known paid informer on them. Varys knew this, i.e then mopatis knew this and that means then that Doran knew this.

The Martells hatred over House Lannister and Robert is another motivating factor, besides revenge over Elia and her babes, to once again have Dorne and Targ royalty marry as they have in the past too.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Except Mormont was informing Varys...so he could easily stifle that particular line of information. Not saying Varys was aware of Dorans machinations, just saying your reasoning is faulty.

 

[Charming Serpent]

That is what i meant. That Mormont was informing Varys and he and Mopatis seem have this grand scheme together. I can find of no other way for Doran to broker a marriage with Viserys save through Mopatis.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Okay I see your point, either my comprehension is bad (always a possibilty) or yer wording was mangled.... either, or...makes no nevermind

Theres no way to approach Viserys and Dany without going through Illyrio right? Illyrio is publicly their benfactor and agent at this point in time so its not even likely a stretch for Doran to know and work through him. So Illyrio tells Viserys, Viserys runs off at the mouth and tells who exactly? Everyone around him through our experience is either feeding Varys, a Dothraki or under Illyrio's employ....if a Dragon rants in the forest and no one is around, do the little birds even care?

That being said, youre probably right and Viserys was in the dark about Dorne because through all our readings he never ranted about it. Which means either Martin hadnt firmed up Dorne's goals at that point or he (Viserys) didnt know.

So if he didnt know that made the plan a simple one. Control Dany through Viserys, control Drogo through his marriage to Dany and his own pride, and control Viserys through his insanity and drive.

So after Drogo pledges his horseman to the cause, Im gonna assume Illyrio would have gone to Viserys and said, "theres no place to land a ship that we can debark safely with our army" Then give Viserys a day or two to stew about it, and then give him this "wonderful offer from Prince Doran of Sunspear".....Viserys would leap at it, then applaud himself for being decisive and make it clear this is the Sevens version of Providence.

As a side note, I was just reading a strategic text the other day on the transportation of cavalry...not for nothing but the horses wouldnt be fit to bear an armed rider for days or weeks after a prolonged sea voyage. They would be weakened to the point of being ruined in a simple gallop or extended canter....I didnt know that.

 

[Charming Serpent]

It's my wording, mangled, to be sure.

But, yeah, I concur on the rest of what you said, wholeheartedly.

 

[DeannaBelle]

I, too, got the impression that Viserys did not know about that arrangement... for the very reasons you mentioned. However, who then would carry out the arrangement?

Yes, Viserys was quick to sell his sister for an army, and he would have married Arianne for an army, but as you said, I just don't think he knew. I guess Dorn may have know Viserys' nature.

My (rhetorical) question is just whom did he plan to marry? He probably just figured that as king, he could cammoan dhis choice and have the pick of the litter, and he didn't seem to realise/care that the dragon must have three heads. He was a true narcissist.

 

[Charming Serpent]

I don't think that after Aegon the conqueror that the Dragon having 3 heads really meant anything anymore. No other Targ went off and married more than one sister. I don't think Aegon himself HAD to do that either, but chose 2 because he loved both. After all, he was not part of a prophecy like Dany is obviously.

Viserys never thought above that because he was insane and was only driven to reclaim the kingdom that was, in his own mind, but tecnically true, his.

As to the arrangements and who could carry them out? I think I have that one down: Doran mentioned that Arianne was to go to the Archon of Lys (Lys right?) and be his cup bearer where she would then meet or see her betrothed in secret. I was rereading Danys' marriage to Khal Drogo and one of the guests attending is the Archons brother. I also believe, if i can remember clearly, that the Archons daughter is a guest of the Martells at the Water Gardens.

Also, Illyrio begged Viserys to not go off with Dany and await what would transpire in Pentos. I believe that had he stayed all with the Archons relatives and Arianne would have been set in motion.

 

[Boaz]

I reread Arianne’s chapter from AFFC where she and her companions ride with Myrcella. The group of seven include Myrcella Baratheon, Arianne Martell, Arys Oakheart, Andrey Dalt, Sylva Santagar, Garin of the Orphans, and Gerold Dayne. Areo Hotah shows up and Arianne’s scheme is ruined. Later in the book, she wonders who betrayed her.

I posted the following years ago…

Fourth, there is some information regarding Arianne's traitorous friend... Andrey Dalt, Garin, or Sylva Santagar. Drey and Garin were both exiled. Sylva was wedded to old man Estermont. Remember that Arianne is her father's heir because the laws of succession in Dorne allow for the eldest child to inherit regardless of sex. Soooo, Sylva is supposedly being punished by marrying an old, old man. When he dies childless, who will inherit? Sylva. Oh, did I mention that she's an only child so that she'll inherit her family's lands and titles as well? It seems to me that she now stands to inherit both Spottswood and Greenstone. Two were exiled and one was gifted with lands and title... do we still wonder who the traitor was?

Since then, I think someone showed me a family tree, or some information that showed that Sylva would not inherit Greenstone when her husband dies. So I reevaluated my assessment of the traitor. But reading this chapter tonight leads me again to think that Sylva was the traitor.

In this chapter, once Hota appears, Martin writes the actions of all the characters except for silver. Myrcella sits Garin raises his hands in surrender. Andrey unbuckles his sword belt and throws it away. Gerold yells at Arys to not attack. Arianne is dumbfounded and cannot speak. Arys charges forward. Arianne found her voice and shrieks “Nooo”. Arys is wounded. And then the following happens…

“No,” some girl was shouting, some foolish little girl, “no, please, this was not supposed to happen.” She could hear Marcella shrieking too, her voice shrill with fear.

This chapter is full of Arianne’s thoughts in italics. And yet she hears some foolish little girl in italics. And Sylva is the only one not mentioned doing this encounter. Did Martin forget about her as he did with Bran’s omission during the feast for Robert at Winterfell? Or is Sylva the one shrieking “this was not supposed to happen”?

Though she has not mentioned, it is easy to imagine Sylva sitting next to Myrcella.

Neither Sylva nor Arianne is that mature, and both could be seen as the stupid little girl. But it seems to me from the text that it is most likely not Arianne. Therefore Sylva is the traitor.