Joff - SoS spoiler

[rudycrab]

I was wondering if it is mentioned anywhere in the books who is the lovely individual who rid the world of Joffery?
If this is blatantly obivous or has been discussed on the forum already, I apologize. I have only read through the books once and I didn't feel like searching the forum.

 

[Adasunshine]

It's implied to be the Queen of Thorns supposedly supplied by Littlefinger who gave the toxic jewel-like stone to Florian the fool, I can't remember details but it's somewhere there...

When Florian sneaks Sansa away, that's when it's implied it's him then she gets to Littlefinger and he explains that the deed was done as the Queen of Thorns adjusted an item of clothing on Sansa, her headdress I think, the toxin was planted and fell into Joff's drink/pie (apologies - my head's not working properly tonight) and hey presto, you have your killer!

Edit: Sorry, you had me searching the pages, it's page 378/379 in the paperback version...

"Petyr smiled. "I will wager you that at some point during the evening someone told you that your hair net was crooked and straightened it for you."
Sansa raised a hand to her mouth. "You cannot mean... she wanted to take me to Highgarden, to marry me to her grandson..."

xx

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I actually have another question related to Joffrey, from AFFC (Spoilers for those who have not read it yet!)








When Jaime takes Tommen outside after he has been sick at Tywin's funeral, he tells Tommen to "go away inside" during moments of distress. Tommen replies that he used to do so when Joffrey- then Cersei comes up and cuts the poor kid off.

Does anyone have an inkling of just what it was Joffrey used to do to Tommen?

 

[Adasunshine]

I wouldn't know where to begin on this, Joff was an evil character indeed.

I imagined it to be not only verbal and physical abuse but maybe even sexual, I don't think Joff would have stopped at anything as long as he got his kicks somehow.

Tommen is such a timid character, nothing would shock me where Joff's torment of others is concerned. He was quite quite mad.

xx

 

[Sword of the Morning]

I actually have another question related to Joffrey, from AFFC (Spoilers for those who have not read it yet!)








When Jaime takes Tommen outside after he has been sick at Tywin's funeral, he tells Tommen to "go away inside" during moments of distress. Tommen replies that he used to do so when Joffrey- then Cersei comes up and cuts the poor kid off.

Does anyone have an inkling of just what it was Joffrey used to do to Tommen?

I posted this a while ago but didn't get much out of it. My guess is that Joffery did one of three things: 1) physical abuse 2) verbal abuse or even 3) sexual abuse.

Being the older brother that is going to be the next king Joff could do any of these things. I mean Joff did cut open a freaking cat to see if the cat had babies. Another thing. I do believe Joff never really took to women. Yes he was married oh for like an hour but considering all the women and whorring about the king to be could have gotten some no?

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Yes he was married oh for like an hour but considering all the women and whorring about the king to be could have gotten some no?

Yes and no. Despite certain freedoms, Cersei did have him on a tight leash in some ways- meaning she was protective of him. In addition, she despised her husband and would not want Joffrey to follow in Robert's footsteps in any way, so I doubt she would have looked kindly on Joffrey whoring.

Besides, for all of Joffrey's boasting and showing off, I really think that deep down inside he was a cowering momma's boy. I don't think he was brave enough to really approach a woman.

 

[JohnSnow]

Of all the characters Joffrey fits into a select group with Biter, Sandor Clegane, and a few others who are truly evil. Not because tey were exposed to traumatic situations and responded to them. They were born evil and are capable of anything. I Would not put anything past Joffrey.

At first I assumed it was just Joffrey torturing animals or children.

I have contemplated Joffrey sexually molesting Tommen or Myrcella. Even possibly Cersei, Joffrey was about 16 correct and weirder freaking things have happened.

snow

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I would not say Sandor Clegane is truly evil. In the case of nature vs. nurture, I'd say "nurture" is responsible for his personality. As for Joffrey, who knows? If he were raised by Ned Stark, would he have turned out any differently? Probably not- it didn't work so well for Theon Greyjoy. But if Sandor Clegane had been raised in a family like the Starks', I think he would have turned out quite differently. He has a sensitive side, and kindness, on the rare occasion it is shown to him, touches him deeply.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

If Joffrey was willing to have his Kingsguard help him rape Sansa even after she was married to his uncle he was more than capable of molesting poor Tommen. Joffrey was a sick,sick kid

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

He certainly inherited his mother's lust for power, and his father's lack of interest in actually ruling.

 

[JohnSnow]

I did not mean Sandor, Gregor is the evil one. I rearly think of them by first names, usually the Hound and the Mountain.

I am not arguing nature versus nurture here. I am just saying that Joffrey's character has always been evil. There was nothing even remotely similar to Sandor's past or even Petyr's. I am glad he's rotting.

 

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

There was definetely verbal abuse, we even got a first hand taste of that a few times like when Tommen was knocked off his horse when trying to joust with the wooden dummy. Physical abuse, maybe but nowhere near as much as he did to Sansa; however, I would have to count sexual abuse out, not because I don't think he would stoop that low (He would, if he took after his mother any which he does), but I don't think Cersei would allow it. Do you really think she would turn a blind eye to it? She must have known, she may have even encouraged the verbal and physical abuse to make Tommen subservient to his future king but she wouldn't have allowed any sexual abuse.

 

[Culhwch]

Yeah, I'd have to agree that sexual abuse probably didn't come into the picture. I'd say it was mostly verbal abuse with a measure of physical abuse when Joff could get away with it. Verbal abuse can be pretty devastating, especially when it is not only constant, but coming from someone you should be able to count on or look up to, or even do despite yourself...

 

[foxtrot023]

In any case, it was good ridance to Joff.

The ASOIAF books make me fill a bit like Arya, when I read them I keep mi own personal list of characters I want eliminated

Lord Tywin, Cersei, Joff, (heck, basically all lannisters minus tyrionand anyone under 16) The Mountain, Cateryn, Roose Bolton, Theon Greyjoy, all the rest of greyjoys, any bloody mummer, etc, etc.

 

[Boaz]

SotM, I had not considered that Cersei's and Jaime's children might follow in their parents' footsteps. At one time Jaime thinks about marrying Joff to Myrcella, but that the kids might have already be involved is horrifying and yet, somehow just (to Cersei and Jaime).