Tommen and Stamping - Spoilers!

[red_temple]

Does anyone think that Tommen may be indirectly attributable for Cersei's downfall? The thing that has been sticking out in my mind is how, in several of Cersei's chapters, GRRM makes mention of how Tommen likes to stamp his royal decrees. He likes it so much that he will, in fact, stamp anything someone puts in front of him.

For example, the theory that Loras is not injured, did not take Dragonstone, and in turn took the fleet to help fight the ironborn could not have been done without some sort of royal decree. In other words, Loras went to Dragonstone with "orders from the king" to break the siege and sail to Oldtown.

What else could Tommen have "stamped" that Cersei did not know about?

 

[sawtooth]

Interesting point Red Temple!

Wow. Tommen could have signed almost anything as a royal decree. It brings to my mind a number of questions.

(1) What is the role of regent in Westeros?
(2) If Cersei is Queen regent, why does she have Tommen sign anything at all?
(3) If a decree is signed by Tommen and not Cersei, is it binding? Is it legal?

AFFC had very little insight into the Small Council compared to AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS. We had more insight into Cersei's thinking (or lack thereof) and her private audiences, but didn't see much "ruling" in action.

(4) Would Cersei not hear of a royal decree being executed? (you know, funds drawn from accounts, military assignments, etc.) Or is she so removed from the ruling process now that she has no access to this information?

My wheels are turning...are yours?

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Interesting point Red Temple!

Wow. Tommen could have signed almost anything as a royal decree. It brings to my mind a number of questions.

(1) What is the role of regent in Westeros?

I believe it is much like the role of any "ruler"- puppetry, to a certain extent.

(2) If Cersei is Queen regent, why does she have Tommen sign anything at all?

Because Tommen is her link to the throne and the power she so craves. Without his signature, it's pretty much moot.

(3) If a decree is signed by Tommen and not Cersei, is it binding? Is it legal?

I'm sure it's binding and legal, but they could simply throw an amendment down for him to stamp with no argument from him.

AFFC had very little insight into the Small Council compared to AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS. We had more insight into Cersei's thinking (or lack thereof) and her private audiences, but didn't see much "ruling" in action.

Indeed. This is because Cersei's idea of ruling is the equivalent to Sansa's impression that life should be the stuff of songs. She simply wants to be placed on a pedestal.

(4) Would Cersei not hear of a royal decree being executed? (you know, funds drawn from accounts, military assignments, etc.) Or is she so removed from the ruling process now that she has no access to this information?

I'm sure there is much that has happened so far without Cersei's knowledge. She's not in a place socially where she's the "go-to guy." For example, when her own father died it was as though the entire castle knew before they bothered to tell her. Not to mention, Tommen has already begun to regard Margaery as a second queen- he might sign something his wife placed in front of him without questioning it.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I sure hope so. It would be great poetic justice if Cersei was tossed into prison by the child she constantly underestimated and degraded.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Just so. I have a certain soft-spot for Tommen. I mean, "Ser Pounce?" How cute is that?

 

[Dolorous Edd]

I've always liked Tommen, and myrcella. For he and his Sister to survive in that enviroment, with a brother like joffrey, a mother like cersei and a "father" like robert i think it shows great character that they've both managed to maintain such fair and even dispositions. perhaps now he's out of Cerei's and Joffrey's influence little Tommen may start to develop into a worthy king. Right in time for Danny to land, shout "Lannister!!!" and chop off his head. Ah well, when you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

For me, Myrcella was rather vanilla. But then again I suppose we didn't learn much about her, except that she liked board games and hot peppers.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

I kind of liked Tommen and Myrcella-it's too bad they are going to die.

 

[Jaxom_Ruatha]

Yes, sadly I don't see either Tommen or Myrcella ever amounting to much. Cersie has seen to it, in her plots to attain power, that they remain nothing more than pawns for others to control.

 

[Tyranus]

For some reason I don't see Myrcella or Tommen as dieing. If Cersei is found guilty I believe Tommen will be removed from the throne, after all they committed no treason knowingly, though they were the spawn of treason. Then again I can also see Tommen used as a pawn of the church. I keep reading that they will die, but who will kill them? It is obvious someone wants Myrcella dead, but I have seen no plotting against Tommen.


By the way, can anyone point me in the direction fo the thread that the dicussion about the attack on Myrcella took place in.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I can't see Tommen dying. The Tyrells have too many reasons to want him alive.

 

[Snagas Tender Blades]

Yes, unless they wait another 5 or 6 years untill he marries Margaery before killing him. Assuming that Margaery somehow makes it out of the prison cell in the church...

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Even then, they should keep Tommen alive. Having a Lannister connection can't be a bad thing.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

The maegi's prophecy for Cersei stats that she will have 3 children and their shrouds will be made of gold-so if we believe that the prophecy is true, then Cersei will outlive all her children.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Yes, I tend to agree that Tommen & Myrcella will die as well (although I can't remember that portion of the prophecy?).
I'm just remembering the parallels Boaz drew between current day events and what happened in the Rebellion, and the part of the Targaryen seems to be being played by the Lannisters in the current day version, which kind of makes Jamie = Rhaegar, Cersei = Elia (sp?) & her children will probably suffer the same fate.

Hasn't anyone figured out that crappy things happen to good people in this series??

 

[foxtrot023]

I've always liked Tommen, and myrcella. For he and his Sister to survive in that enviroment, with a brother like joffrey, a mother like cersei and a "father" like robert i think it shows great character that they've both managed to maintain such fair and even dispositions. perhaps now he's out of Cerei's and Joffrey's influence little Tommen may start to develop into a worthy king. Right in time for Danny to land, shout "Lannister!!!" and chop off his head. Ah well, when you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.

perhaps GRR Martin is saving Jaime for that role. Maybe Jaime will give his life so that his 2 children can live. I can´t see Danys killing them, but I can see her gladly teeling her dragons to eat Jaime, and if you think about it, it does meet GRRM style of making us like a character and then kill him.

 

[TK-421]

The real danger for Tommen is now he will be without this mother as his Regent. He really needs Kevan or Jaime to come run things for him otherwise Pycelle and company will have him stamp anything...including his mother and sister's execution orders...wouldn't that be a good twist.

 

[Boaz]

Well the irony of Cersei using Eddard's child to bring him down and then have the Tyrells (or someone else) use her child to bring her down is nice. Martin loves to repeat events and reinforce themes... I gotta wake up and see these coming!