Ancient/ Mediaeval/ Fantasy research - written sources

[Brian G Turner]

These are books that I've read that I'd highly recommend to anyone looking to shape a reality in the Ancient to Mediaeval worlds of Europe. Especially useful for fantasy or historical fiction for the time periods covered:

The Ancient City - Fustel De Coulanges

Superb book that details so many aspects of life in an ancient city. Even better, a lot of the detail would be equally applicable to the European cites of the Middle Ages, Mediaeval, and Renaissance periods.

England under the Norman and Angevin Kings 1075-1225 - Robert Bartlett

If you're looking at the social structure of feudal structure of European society then this is superbly detailed. Whereas other books are usually interested only kings and wars, this covers a huge range of the social elements.

The Year 1000 - Robert Lacey & Danny Danziger

This is a rich source of detail focussed squarely on the agricultural calendar. Enlightening - especially that the peasantry were threatened with starvation not in winter, but in summer.

ALSO:

The Ancient City - Peter Connolly & Hazel Dodge

Nicely illustrated with lavish pictures, making it easier to visualise a lot of the ideas inherent in the book by De Lounges.

Ancient Civlisations - John Haywood

An actual history of a wide variety of ancient cultures. that fails to fixated simply on Rome, Greece, or Egypt, as many other works do. Plenty of small illustrations, especially maps.


Alexander the Great - Robin Lane Fox

What's nice about this version of events is the critical historical eye. There's also some nice detail on the campaigns which could be useful.

The Civil War - Julius Caesar

Whether really authored by himself or not, it contains a lot of useful information about an army on the march in ancient times.

The Persian Expediation - Xenophon

Suffering various titles, another being "March of the 10,000", this is a good detailed account of military movement in the ancient world, but for different reasons than Caesar's.

History of the Peloponnesian War -Thucidydes

This is my favourite of all the first hand accounts of the ancient world that I've ever read (and I can assure you I've read a lot! The politics and tactics of conflict is brought to life through Thucidydes lucid and engaging style of writing.

The Iliad - Homer

A great illustration of the principles and mindset of the earliest Greeks - probably much more widely applicable.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'd just like to add:

The Twelve Caesars - Suetonius

Probably the best and most thorough account of the rulers of Imperial Rome, and lighter to read than Tacitus. Focussed on the political events.

 

[Esioul]

Heheh, I love Suetonius, totally insane. Where the emporers actually like that?

Can I also add 'Seed to Civilisation' by Charles Heiser (I think that's the name), a good book on agricultural history. This is the book which gave me my evil facts about the genetics and development of Maize and Emmer....

Also Virgil's Aeneid- this has a slightly different perspective on themes dealt with in the Iliad. Also the Epic of Gilgamesh and Petronius' Satyricon. And anything by Cicero. Yeah. (Cicero rules ok).

 

[Brian G Turner]

I think the wild element of Suetonius is that he included every rumour and gossip without filtering it - I'm sure he makes a statement to that fact at the beginning of his work. The problem is - as I've seen argued elsewhere - that we must be careful ascribing too much truth to the events he relates.

For example, I once read a great rebuff about the descriptions of Caligula in Suetonious, which effectively stated that these were later satires and parodies - making his horse consul, for example - and that it is entirely our error to ascribe these events as literal history, rather than a form of literary history.

Never read Aenid or Cicero, though - I actually got bored by the Odyssey and after all these years I still haven't gotten around to reading my collection of Plutarch letters. I do have lots of other works read, but I've not sat down and read anything from that part of my collection for quite some time.

Thaks for the book recommendations, though.

 

[Esioul]

That's fine!

I really reccommend the Aeneid, I think I prefer it quite a lot to the Iliad although it's the same kind of thing. There's a few lines I'm obsessed with at the moment from it.

I like reading modern history books about the time as well- the best one is definitely Sir Ronald Syme's The Roman Revolution- so well written. And for fun I, Claudius- weird and exaggerated but funny.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I, Claudius was a good read, but when I then returned to the actual history, it became apparent just how much character invention Graves had been involved with - not least that, by all accounts, Claudius seems to have been far more of a pathetic character than the one Graves wrote for us to be sympathic with.

I've not read any other historical fiction/fantasy dealing with Ancient Rome - perhaps I should, as this is an area that really interests me.

 

[Esioul]

Lindsey Davis has written some ok ones, mostly made up really though- they aren't based on history, only on the Romans.

It's difficult to really know what someone was like from the few historical sources that remain. I'm quite into this cognitive archaeology stuff, but it's weird.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Claudius's behaviour with his wife doesn't suggest the sombre and mature character potrayed in the I, Claudius books, that's for sure! I guess that's just artistic licence.

I tried reading his "Count Belisarius", especially as Procopius' "Secret History" of the period is such a nasty read, but Graves really let's the narrative style go downhill there - the POV use of the slave as the eyes for the reader just doesn't work for myself.

I've encountered quick a few authors who've written about Roman history and people - maybe one day when I'm less busy. That's if I don't get too critical with them.

 

[Dead Riverdragon]

There seems to be a relative scarcity of historical fiction based around ancient Rome compared to classical Greece in particular, which I find surprising. I may just be completely missing the Roman stuff, but I do keep an eye out for it (The only good read I can remember was a story about gladiators I read years back. It was probably called 'Gladiator'). I'm also on the look out for fiction based on Alexander's successors and later on early medieval Europe, but no one seems much bothered about those periods. Which is a crying shame; some of history's best characters cropped up then.

It's a shame you didn't like the Odyssey, Brian. I remeber it being great apart from the abrupt ending, and at the time much easier to read than the Illiad. Obviously it's no so useful historically, even given the Illiad's spurious accuracy. Diomedes still rocks, though.

A quick recommendation for Michael Sage's sourcebook 'Ancient Greek Warfare'. It gives a wide range of primary sources ranging from Homeric to Hellenistic warfare, neatly divided into topics with a summary by Sage of the themes and developments. Great for getting all your sources in one place, and I found it a useful resource as a fantasy write for charting technological and strategic developments. Nice blue finish on the cover, too.

 

[dwndrgn]

Dead Riverdragon - if you like mystery type fiction then you could check out John Maddox Roberts and Lindsay Davis. They both have series based on characters who live in the Roman equivalent of 'the good old days'. I'm no history student but I've heard that Davis does a great deal of research for her books and has been commended for portraying the period as we would imagine it to be using those historical facts that are available to us. I've not read any of the John Maddox Roberts but his have been similarly praised and it is a very lengthy series, so must be somewhat of a good read to be so popular. I keep meaning to pick up the first in the series 'Nobody Loves a Centurion' but keep forgetting, except when I'm at the library and my branch doesn't have it. The Davis series I would definitely recommend. I've enjoyed them a great deal.

 

[littlemissattitude]

It's difficult to really know what someone was like from the few historical sources that remain. I'm quite into this cognitive archaeology stuff, but it's weird.

Cognitive archaeology is interesting, isn't it? Very controversial, from what I've read, but what isn't controversial in all the anthropologies, including archaeology? That's half the fun of it.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Thanks for the recommendations, Dead Riverdragon - though I've no idea where you've seen those historical fiction: Ancient Greece novels!! Maybe I simply having been looking properly, maybe it's only the Rome ones that stick out?

On that topic - saw a new book being pushed in the shops the other day: Gates of Rome - a first novel and the first of a trilogy, about a rising gladiator, I think. Just checked the author name: Conn Iggulden.

As for the Odyssey - I guess it was really Telemachus that really annoyed myself - there was too much melodrama about losing Ulysses seat of power on the domestic front, and I just withdrew interest. Probably premature of myself, though. I found the Iliad flowed very well, though, and made for smoother reading.

You know what's really odd? Before I ever read the Iliad I concieved of a character for my own writing who I named Diomedes, who was remarkably similar in character. No idea how that happened. Diomedes is certainly one of the most memorable of the characters in the iliad, though - it's he (a mortal!) who almost kills Mars, the God of War, isn't it?! Be interesting to see how he appear in the movie Troy - though I suspect they've taken out the "gods" element and tried to make it seem more "historical".

 

[Esioul]

I totally agree about Diomedes- my fave character from the Iliad. I'm glad someone else thinks so too!

 

[Dead Riverdragon]

Well Diomedes essentially stands in for Achilles while he's off moping, and I get the impression that Troy concentrates largely on Brad Pitt killing stuff, so sadly I can't see Diomedes featuring that highly (and I agree that the gods are unlikely to have much of a role, I don't even think I've seen any in the cast listing)

 

[Esioul]

I think there's a chance the film could really be quite terrible. I mean, no Diomedes? Who is being Odysseus, by the way (my second fave character).

 

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

Has anyone read Steven Pressfield? He has this really good novel about the battle of Thermopylae called 'Gates of Fire'?

 

[Dead Riverdragon]

I think Odysseus is played by Sean Bean of Boromir fame. Works for me

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm sure I heard David Gemmell recommend Steven Pressfield's novel, too.

 

[Esioul]

Yay! I LOVE Sean Bean!

 

[Chefo]

Rome:

'I, Claudius' by Robert Graves.

'Julian' by Gore Vidal.

'On the Wars', 'The Secret History' by Procopius.

Medieval:

'Strategikon' by Emperor Maurice.

'Tactica' by Emperor Leo.

'Chronicles of the Fourth Crusade' by Villardouin.

'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu.

'The Prince' by Machiavelli.

'Chronographia' by Michael Psellus.



Chefo