Read first one, does it realy get better?

[Lavos]

I bought both Gardens and Deadhouse, and I know everyone is saying that Gardens of the Moon is the worst one in the series, but after reading it, I realy dont have any will to read the next one.

In my mind Erikson is in no way better than D&D books, everywhere unrealisticaly powerful people, magic is absurdly strong. Characters are very numerous but also very lifeless. They get a name and couple of character developing lines and thats it. That all is really everything I dont like in fantasy. I know this sound like I hated the book, but I quite liked the story, its got complex background and overall it was a decent fantasy. But decent fantasy is pletiful and most of them are much less time consuming.

Most important is that I realy like strong living characters and for the ones in Eriksons book I didnt care a thing.

So my question, does it get drastically better?

 

[nixie]

Give Gatehouse Gates ago before given up completely,it does get better.

 

[Rane Longfox]

If you hate GotM then theres no guarentee you'll enjoy the later ones, obviously, but it is constantly remarked that Erikson's writing gets significantly better in the second book. Personally, I loved all of them, but I'm generally considered a few colours short of a picture...

 

[HieroGlyph]

...unrealisticaly powerful people, magic is absurdly strong...

Characters ... lifeless...
...
But decent fantasy is pletiful and most of them are much less time consuming.

So my question, does it get drastically better?

Some parts might get better, but drastically is a strong word...

As for powerful people, I think if you get a 'feel' for this new universe you'll understand what power is like and that no-one has too much power and gets away with it...

You'd have to explain the lifelessness you have interpreted.

Dont give up and dont be too critical . Youve obviously read a fair bit, so you must know there are reads at which you can look back upon and think "now that was worth the effort!" and this series is quite varied and ... unfinished. If its a matter of time-wasting for you then hold off for a few years. No-one is forcing you

 

[Rahl Windsong]

Actually the brilliance of Erikson, at least for me, is the fact that he has created this story that really should be too full of powerful characters, but somehow Erikson makes it work. In Roleplay there is a rule, never make your character too powerful and never make your character too weak it just becomes too difficult for most people to RP a character in either extreme and be convincing.

Having said that, Erikson takes that unwritten rule and says to hell with that and proceeds to write a brilliant and quite original story full of over powered characters and a few, like the Mhybe (SP?), that are too weak. Granted his strength is in his stronger characters but for me the reason you gave not to like this story is the main reason I love it.

Also Erikson seems to be taking a long time to tell us about these characters but personally I like that because it makes me want to find out more and to do that I have to continue to read.

So in conclusion if you really do enjoy fantasy with lots of branching plotlines and so many characters it becomes a challenge to remember them all, then keep reading you will be hard pressed to find anything out there that is more worth your time and effort.

Of course that is just my own opinion and if you continue to read I'd like to hear/read yours.

Rahl

 

[Rosemary]

I had the same trouble as you Lavos. Too many characters, too many armies, too much blood and guts etc.

I don't give in too easily, so as advised read the second volume. It does get better. I am now three quarters of the way through the fourth book.

 

[GOLLUM]

I don't give in too easily, so as advised read the second volume. It does get better. I am now three quarters of the way through the fourth book.

Whoa good progress Rosemary. Before you know it you'll be up to Midnight Tides and not too far away from the rest of us....

 

[Rosemary]

Whoa good progress Rosemary. Before you know it you'll be up to Midnight Tides and not too far away from the rest of us....

You are very persuasive Precioussss - Midnight Tides is already in my bookcase waiting to be read

 

[nixie]

You are very persuasive Precioussss - Midnight Tides is already in my bookcase waiting to be read

I thought I talked you into MT instead of the Ms Dart Thortons book

 

[GOLLUM]

I thought I talked you into MT instead of the Ms Dart Thortons book

We can take half commision each Nixie, at this rate we'll both be rich MUWHAA!!!.....

 

[nixie]

50/50 split sounds good to me mate

 

[Mulch]

It does get better, I have just re-read GOTM and thoroughly enjoyed it, the first time I read it I hated the first half of the book then enjoyed the second. Now that I've read all the other books in the series, I enjoyed the first half of GOTM as I had a better understanding of what was going on.

 

[Rosemary]

Actually, that is a very good idea Mulch. Perhaps re-reading the entire series will clarify some of the more puzzling aspects of the books.

 

[Morreion]

I too had a bit of trouble at first with GotM, being dropped into a complex storyline and detailed world... but I am near the end of Deadhouse Gates and I have ordered several more volumes of the series. It does get better. Whereas Gardens leaves you wondering a bit if it all came together, Deadhouse is no less complex, but solid and mature writing. Several of the scenes are breathtaking.

Keep on!

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Well Lavos. I can definitely sympathise as that's pretty much how I first felt about GotM. Too many characters to follow and you find you don't care what happens to them.

Having said that, I did enjoy the second half of GotM and can see some potential in the story. I like the idea of Warrens and the fact that nearly all the Bridgeburners have a hidden agenda/background and aren't just soldiers.

I'm a little disappointed that Deadhouse Gates seems to be set hundreds of miles away with a whole new set of characters to get to know (apart from Kalam etc).

I'm keep chugging along with it I suppose.
Am I the only one seeing massive parallels with Ray Feist's Riftwar series though?
Jaghut = Valheru
Tiste Andii = Elves
Bridgeburners = Doomed men (or whatever they were called - y'know Erik von Darkmoor & that lot)
The Claw = Nighthawks

maybe I've just read too many fantasy books and I'm starting to see re-occuring cliches though.

 

[williamjm]

Am I the only one seeing massive parallels with Ray Feist's Riftwar series though?

I haven't really noticed anything, but since both series were based on RPG campaigns run by the respective authors, some similarity is not too surprising. I know Midkemia originally started as a Dungeons & Dragons campaign, before the RPG group made their own system, I don't know if the same is true of Erikson's world, but it would not be too surprising

 

[Mulch]

Jaghut = Valheru
Tiste Andii = Elves
Bridgeburners = Doomed men (or whatever they were called - y'know Erik von Darkmoor & that lot)
The Claw = Nighthawks

maybe I've just read too many fantasy books and I'm starting to see re-occuring cliches though.

I admit that when first read GOTM I thought that the tiste were a bit like elves but other than that the comparison fails. I mean look at the depiction of the tiste edur on the cover of the UK version of MT, they look nothing like elves though they are supposed to be very like the Tiste Andii.

One of the things I like about erikson is the lack of cliche and the fact that it's not 'farm boy discovers he's hard as nails and beats the dark lord to rule the world'.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Well, the CG could have been a farm-boy-orphan-with-sword type person, who knows

 

[Brys]

Well Lavos. I can definitely sympathise as that's pretty much how I first felt about GotM. Too many characters to follow and you find you don't care what happens to them.

Having said that, I did enjoy the second half of GotM and can see some potential in the story. I like the idea of Warrens and the fact that nearly all the Bridgeburners have a hidden agenda/background and aren't just soldiers.

I'm a little disappointed that Deadhouse Gates seems to be set hundreds of miles away with a whole new set of characters to get to know (apart from Kalam etc).

I'm keep chugging along with it I suppose.
Am I the only one seeing massive parallels with Ray Feist's Riftwar series though?
Jaghut = Valheru
Tiste Andii = Elves
Bridgeburners = Doomed men (or whatever they were called - y'know Erik von Darkmoor & that lot)
The Claw = Nighthawks

maybe I've just read too many fantasy books and I'm starting to see re-occuring cliches though.

There's no doubt that Erikson's been heavily influenced by many important fantasy authors - but I don't think Feist's one of them. What's much more likely is that Feist and Erikson drew from the same sources - Feist admits to being influenced by the likes of Vance, Moorcock, Leiber etc. Erikson's writing shows that he is influenced by those same authors. That said, the Jaghut are nothing like the Valheru, and the Tiste have on the most superficial similarities to elves. The Claw are a very different organisation to that of the Nighthawks, and the Bridgeburners again have very little in common with the doomed men - after all, the Bridgeburners are an elite military unit who volunteer to join it. The Bridgeburners are much closer to Glen Cook's Black Company than anything else. Erikson isn't entirely original, but then he does have a lot of his own ideas and what he writes is individual - he uses existing elements of fantasy and his imagination to come up with something completely new.


Don't worry about Deadhouse Gates changing setting - you get an amazing story, much better than GotM, because of it.

 

[Rahl Windsong]

Don't worry about Deadhouse Gates changing setting - you get an amazing story, much better than GotM, because of it.

In fact at the beginning of each new book the cast of characters pretty much completely changes, or goes back to a previous books cast of characters. However once you are a few chapters in you forget why it mattered because the new story is so amazing!

Rahl