ASoIaF weakness(es)?

Prefx

Prefx

Lord of the City-Within
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This forum is full of [semi-]positive posts, which is, of course, understandable, but I was wondering if anyone hear had some complaints about the series? Plot device you don't like, characters you find pointless, or something?

For me, my only problem has really been with Danny. It seems forced that she's waiting all this time to set sail (Well, arrive) in the realm.
 
Prefx said:
This forum is full of [semi-]positive posts, which is, of course, understandable, but I was wondering if anyone hear had some complaints about the series? Plot device you don't like, characters you find pointless, or something?

For me, my only problem has really been with Danny. It seems forced that she's waiting all this time to set sail (Well, arrive) in the realm.
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Really, I actually didnt see it that way at all. Well as they say different strokes for different folks. Initially I found AFFC to be slow but rereading it I actually enjoyed it much more.So really I have no compliants.
 
Well, now that the $25,000 question...I'm sure there will be rants and long posts on this thread. It is a difficult question to answer. I mean, if it's character specific, then there are plenty of examples like Cat or Sansa that drive some people nuts.

But, I judge the series in terms of enjoyment when I am reading the books and the thoughts I give to the series when I put the books down. And when I am reading the books, I really enjoy what is going on as there always seems to be something happening with one character or another. GRRM does not really let us take a breather and I do not feel as if you are just waiting for something to happen like in some other series that can at times tedious. And when I put down the books and think about the characters, I can almost see them in my head and see the places he describes in the books. They are also very provoking in terms of anticipating the next series of events and GRRM has a knack for going in the opposite direction that I would sometimes anticipate. There is also a great deal of mystery in the series as it is a fine balance between fantasy and a series modeled after historical events.

Anyways, sorry this has turned into a monologue about why the series is good and therefore like genesis2, no real complaints here. But I think some complaints about specific characters were addressed in other threads but rarely can someone like EVERY character. I'll let those who have something real to say, answer the problematique.
 
Ygritte really, really got on my nerves, and I think that she was meant to be a sympathetic character - at least in terms of Jon's character arc - so for me that is a failure. Shae also made me want to scream, but I think that was intended. I find a lot of the Dany stuff boring, so I can agree with you there, Prefx. But I think in the scope of the series as a whole, these are fairly small complaints.
 
I think there are a lot of weaknesses. Here are a few off the top of my head, in no particular order.

A Game of Thrones started with the children too young.

The food recieves more description than the people or places.

The backstory of Rebellion and battle of Trident sometimes overwhelm the present.

Too many prophecies!

"Nuncle"
 
I agree that the children are too young. The Stark storyline would be more plausible if Jon,Robb,Arya, and Bran were each two years older. So I have taken the initiative to make them older in my mind. Yes, the timelines get all screwed up, but my mind is all screwy anyways. I concur that "nuncle" is a stupid word. Lengthy food descriptions rule! The "Soiled Knight" POV chapter in AFFC should be replaced with recipes for the popular dishes of the seven kingdoms.
 
what do you mean they're too young?!(OUTRAGE) they're extreme youth gives the perfect opportunity for an almost complete view of their characterization, whereas with older characters who have a lifetime of experience under their belts we can only guess at their true motivations becuase we have a limited knowledge of their developement as a person.
Dany staying wherte she is makes perfect sense. Her dragons can't carry her yet and even if they could she has no fleet to sail her army to Westoros, how would she get there?swim?
 
I guess my main complaint about these books is that they're not perfect. I mean God, how hard is it? I found a typo once that really chapped my hide. Plus, it bothers me that the Starks have wolves instead of canaries.

Other than that stuff, it's all good.:p
 
Okay first off. The real animal of the north... is a beaver. being from canada im alowed to say that. secondly.. i agree COMPLETELY with smiling wierwood. them being so young when thrown into all this just shows what can and will happen. you can get to see them grow this way and in order for it to fit the timeline (for the R + L = J) theory, it must have been this way.
Furthermore, them being so young shows through in crutial poionts in the series. Sansa telling cerci, joff killing eddard. As Varys said, Children are on of the few things you cant predict. The children have as much hand in how it is right now as any other person.
The one thing i dislike about this book, which is also a good thing in literacy, is how GRRM makes us feel so angry and sad. he has 5 disasters for every joy. It gets you hooked and at the same time, there are milllions of things that have happened that you completely want to see happen differently.
Thats all i have to say.
 
It seems no one has it in them to offer a real criticism, so let me be the first:

Sometimes, Martin doesn’t know what to leave off the page. While the series thus far has avoided the needless and seemingly endless filler burdening Robert Jordan’s series, Martin has from time to time included lengthy passages and sequences that do little to further the story or characters.

Oh, nothing that has detracted from the series. Things move along at a brisk enough pace so that almost immediately after a sequence that strikes me as needless another is started that surges the plot forward in a major way. As long as he remains tight and focused, not a HUGE issue … but I can’t deny that there have been a few chapters along the way that easily, easily could have been cast aide and no one would have missed them.
 
Shoegaze99 said:
It seems no one has it in them to offer a real criticism, so let me be the first:

Sometimes, Martin doesn’t know what to leave off the page. While the series thus far has avoided the needless and seemingly endless filler burdening Robert Jordan’s series, Martin has from time to time included lengthy passages and sequences that do little to further the story or characters.

Oh, nothing that has detracted from the series. Things move along at a brisk enough pace so that almost immediately after a sequence that strikes me as needless another is started that surges the plot forward in a major way. As long as he remains tight and focused, not a HUGE issue … but I can’t deny that there have been a few chapters along the way that easily, easily could have been cast aide and no one would have missed them.
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But nothing glaring. Most books probably could use a snip or a cut. There has only been a very small margin of critism on this thread mainly as you have already stated GRRM has stayed the course. Tight and focused.
 
genisis2 said:
But nothing glaring.
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No, nothing that stikes me as glaring. Most of the Theon stuff from A Clash Of Kings came close, but that was about as wandering as he's gotten so far (even if I echo others' feelings when it comes to not always being enamored with the Dany chapters, especially early on). He seems to have a much better handle on keeping his plotting tight than most others writing sprawling fantasy these days.
 
Brienne's story in AFfC was pretty aimless, she just wandered around the countryside on a quest every reader knew was futile, doing nothing of note until the end. Her chapters were pretty much the only storyline I've wanted to skip past, though of course I didn't.

Plus I was really really angry when Maester Aemon died. There was only one thing I wanted more than for Dany to meet Aemon, and that was for us to get a Tywin Lannister POV...

I suppose it's the mark of a good author that I'm genuinely angry at being denied these things as a reader.
 
Quoting The Last Knight by Norman F. Cantor (history of Jon of Gaunt)
"probably from the age of 5, Gaunt was trained to ride ... blah, blah,blah...By age 10 Gaunt was well-instructed in the essentials of knightly warfare both on horseback and in hand-to-hand fighting,and by age 14 he would be knighted as the Earl of Richmond.
But at age 10 Gaunt was deemed ready to experience warfare personally. While he was crossing the English channel to camp of Edward the Black prince, the small fleet his ship was intercepted by a spanish squadron and he found himself in the midst of hand-to-hand fighting between English and Spanish crews.
He was participating in battles by age 13 and at age 15 was fighting alongside his father, Edward III, on the Scottish frontier."
I cant find it but I am pretty sure one of the chapters states that by age 7 he was considered an adult.
So GRRM is knowledgable and has historical fact backing him up when he is writing about the Stark children. It seems that GRRM is using a template of the Great Families in 14th century Europe. So I'm responding to Yossarian and Direghost's comments like this one. "I agree that the children are too young. The Stark storyline would be more plausible if Jon,Robb,Arya, and Bran were each two years older."
They seem too young but in fact are not.
 
Well, on the other hand, Martin has said he wished he had made the children older in the beginning as well. The intended 5-year gap was meant to solve much of that problem, but now that he's dropped the idea it is still a problem.
 
direghost said:
Well, on the other hand, Martin has said he wished he had made the children older in the beginning as well. The intended 5-year gap was meant to solve much of that problem, but now that he's dropped the idea it is still a problem.
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I'm sorry, why is this a problem?

I imagine in the world were the action is taking place is somewhat parallel to medieval times, where life expectancy was quite low, probably about 1/3 of today and children grew up quickly, married early and died early. I think the loss of innocence is an important factor when dealing with the Stark children.
 
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