Conjecture: Why was Benjen in the NW?

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

I have been thinking after I posted it in another thread, but I could not come up with the answer. I realise that some things are mysteries, but that's why I make this thread: What do YOU think Benjen is (was?) there for?

Was he a criminal at all?
Did he think that it was as rosy on the Wall as Jon did?
Was it related to the truth behind Lyanna?

Care to take a guess?

 

[Ghost of Harrenhal]

I think it's simpler than that. He was a youngest son and probably never expected to inherit Winterfell. He probably joined because he had no other real callings. There is honour in the Watch still, if your noble born.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Among the Northern lords especially so.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

But certainly, there were other venues to explore? If he had the skills to become First Rider (Is that the name in English?), surely he could've been quite the knight. Kingsguard, maybe? Who knows?

 

[Raven]

In the tale of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, we're told that a young (pre-Rebellion) Benjen saw a Night's Watch recruiter speak at the Harrenhal tourney and was impressed by it. We can also assume that the Starks still see the Wall as an honourable calling, certainly as much so as any other opportunity open to a third son, and so there was no reason anyone would discourage him from this ambition.

Ben's words to Jon at the Winterfell feast might suggest he possessed a certain naivete or 'rosy view' when he joined, I suppose, but generally there seems to be no mystery to the issue. (Or not necessarily so, anyway.) He wanted to join for a long time, and did so once the war was over, Ned's line was secure and his family duty was done.

 

[viZion]

But certainly, there were other venues to explore? If he had the skills to become First Rider (Is that the name in English?), surely he could've been quite the knight. Kingsguard, maybe? Who knows?

Knighthood is something granted by and to those who worship the Seven. Since most Northmen (especially the Starks) still worship the old gods there aren't too many Knights up there. As far as I know, up until Cersei (through Joffrey) changed things to allow the Hound to serve, you had to be a Knight to serve on the Kingsguard. Might be some stuff I'm missing here but I'm sure someone will set me straight.

 

[Boaz]

First Ranger.

I've two thoughts on Benjen joining the Night's Watch. First, the Starks are inexorably linked to the NW. Houses Tully, Baratheon, Lannister, Martell, Tyrell, Greyjoy, and Arryn do not view the continued success of the NW of any real concern to their own power bases. Remember the laughter that Tyrion's japes at Ser Alliser's embassy to the Iron Throne? The entire realm views the NW at best, as a dumping ground for their hardened criminals, and at worst they see the NW as border guards for House Stark. One of House Starks philosophies is to keep the leadership of the NW friendly to the interests and safety of the North. I think Benjen took the black to be the next generation of Stark friendly leadership in the NW.

The other thought I have is that in the immediate aftermath of Robert's Rebellion, the Starks decided to hedge their bets. Eddard broke three hundred years of Targaryen dynastic rule through blood and vengeance. Was he positive the new order ushered in by himself, Jon Arryn and Robert Baratheon would last? By returning to Winterfell, either Eddard felt that Robert was secure on the throne or else he was preparing against the eventual backlash by preparing the North. Or maybe he was still too mad at Robert to stay by his side.

Eddard could have easily stayed and served on Robert's Small Council. Sure, Jon was Hand, but Eddard could easily have been named Master of Laws... I've no doubt he'd have been better than Renly. Eddard could have filled other positions as well, Master of Ships, Master of Coin, Commander of the City Watch... and Eddard could even have undertaken the mission to seek out Ser Willem Darry and apprehend Viserys and Daenerys. (Eddard would not have killed them, this would have been his chance to make sure they were put beyond the reach of Robert's knives.) And all the while that Eddard would've been serving in King's Landing, Benjen could have been Warden of the North.

Eddard dreamed of repopulating the Gift. Well, who better than Benjen to lead this effort? But Eddard did not stay in KL and he did not give lands and title to Benjen... Maybe he wanted Benjen to be free from the mess that Robert's reign might bring.

But after taking his vows, Benjen could not legally marry and pass on his name to a son. So what is the advantage of Benjen taking the black? Is just to live a few years longer lamenting the wreck of his house, just like Maester Aemon?

The thing that Benjen could do in complete safety from the Wall would be to watch and protect Jon Snow. IF there came a time when the Starks would be annihilated, then Benjen could bring forth Jon to keep their blood alive. We know the NW does not permit members to ever leave, but IF Jon was proved by Benjen to be the only legitimate and legal heir of Aegon the Conqueror and Aerys II through Crown Prince Rhaegar, then I think the High Septon, the Conclave, and many of the assembled lords of the realm would clamor for an immediate exemption to the NW's laws. They could claim that a Targaryen is not bound by any oaths that a Snow made.

That all seems rather preposterous to me to be a valid reason for Benjen to join the Night's Watch. Like I said, I favor the continued rapport of the northmen and the crows.

 

[JDP]

My money would be on the Northmen still considering joining the NW to be an honorable calling. Hence, a third son of the North would likely choose the wall.

Knighthood would be out as an option for several reasons; as has been stated above, men of the North do not worship the Seven and so would not be anointed in a sept, thus could not become knights; even if Benjen became a knight or a non-anointed equivalent, what would he do then? Sit around in Winterfell like a third wheel while Ned runs things? Swear fealty to a Stark bannerman? Or some soft southron lordling? Become a hedge knight? Only seven men in the Seven Kingdoms get to be in the Kingsguard, so that's a nice dream, but unrealistic if you have no backup plan No, the Wall is a better option for a son of the North.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Maybe he could not have been a knight in title as per the south's customs, but surely he could have been the northern equivalent. Indeed, he could not have hoped to inherit Winterfell (which in the end he would have done if he hadn't been NW) but there seems to be something wrong. I mean, he would've mentioned something about it if he had indeed joined up voluntarily. Maybe he fathered a ******* with some highborn lady?
After all, he did sound pretty bitter when he told Jon his line about bastards.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

The Old Bear and Ser Alliser Thorne joined voluntarily. Both of them were highborn, and Mormont was the lord of Bear Island.

I think joining for the prestige and virtue is a reason enough.

I mean, why don't we come up with reasons why all those women became septas next. Some people do things for reasons you won't understand personally, that's just realistic.

 

[Boaz]

Actually, Ser Alliser was a Targaryen supporter who joined voluntarily rather than have his head stuck above the gates of King's Landing. Ser Jaremy Rykker joined for exactly the same reason. The Lannisters provided both of those men and Janos Slynt for the NW... a Lannister always pays his debts.

It also seems to me that Benjen did not join the NW until after Brandon's death... so he was no longer a third son. If Benjen had waited, he'd have had the chance to marry a widow and inherit her lands. This is what Ramsay Snow did with Donella Hornwood and what Bronn did with Lollys Stokeworth. Benjen might have even married Maege Mormont and become the Old Bear's brother in-law instead of brother... or better yet, Ben might have married young Dacey Mormont. Mmmmmmm, Dacey.

 

[Raven]

I mean, he would've mentioned something about it if he had indeed joined up voluntarily.

On the other hand, if he had been forced to join by some scandal it's far more likely yet that would have been mentioned. In particular, if he'd fathered a ******* and been forced to join for that (which would be odd in itself - noblemen fathering bastards isn't particularly scandalous) it would be natural for Cat or Ned to think of it at some point, especially when Jon is considering joining the NW. It would be downright weird at this point to find out Ben had a ******* that had never been mentioned.

There's really nothing here that needs explanation. If Waymar Royce joined voluntarily, why can't Ben have done so? Waymar was the third son of an important family, already a knight and not even a Northman.

It's not so hard to believe. Men do still join the NW because they want to.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Actually, Ser Alliser was a Targaryen supporter who joined voluntarily rather than have his head stuck above the gates of King's Landing. Ser Jaremy Rykker joined for exactly the same reason. The Lannisters provided both of those men and Janos Slynt for the NW... a Lannister always pays his debts.

It also seems to me that Benjen did not join the NW until after Brandon's death... so he was no longer a third son. If Benjen had waited, he'd have had the chance to marry a widow and inherit her lands. This is what Ramsay Snow did with Donella Hornwood and what Bronn did with Lollys Stokeworth. Benjen might have even married Maege Mormont and become the Old Bear's brother in-law instead of brother... or better yet, Ben might have married young Dacey Mormont. Mmmmmmm, Dacey.

Its not uncommon for second sons (and thirds) to join a monastic order or quasi-military order to carve their own niche in our own medieval world. Why is it so hard to understand why Benjen would do the same?

Maybe Benjen didnt want to marry someone elses leavings (ala Ramsay) or be seen as a tool to get close to Eddard. Some people need a cause to devote themselves to and quite frankly someone of Benjens ilk could rise high in the NightsWatch. Well-bred, literate, insightful and personable are all qualities that make a good First Ranger and Lord Commander....

Of the mysteries presented on these forums, this is the least intriguing one to me so far.

and yes....mmm Dacey

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a mystery. I was just curious, really. But most of you seem to think he was there out of a sense of duty and futility? So Benjen was the youngest...but if he only joined the NW after Brandon died, he would not have that far from Winterfell. But maybe he joined the NW to get out of Aerys' clutches?

 

[Boaz]

Its not uncommon for second sons (and thirds) to join a monastic order or quasi-military order to carve their own niche in our own medieval world. Why is it so hard to understand why Benjen would do the same?

It's not hard to understand, it's just hard to admit that there's an easy answer. I need plots and intrigue... and more intrigue!!!

and yes....mmm Dacey

I might make this my new signature...

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a mystery. I was just curious, really. But most of you seem to think he was there out of a sense of duty and futility? So Benjen was the youngest...but if he only joined the NW after Brandon died, he would not have that far from Winterfell. But maybe he joined the NW to get out of Aerys' clutches?

No, it was Brandons death that caused the war, then Aerys sent to the Aerie for Ned and Jon Arryn defied him and the rest as they say is history....now if you tell me Benjen joined in the middle of the Rebellion I will lose all respect for him.

Mmmm...Dacey

 

[Raven]

No, it was Brandons death that caused the war, then Aerys sent to the Aerie for Ned and Jon Arryn defied him and the rest as they say is history....now if you tell me Benjen joined in the middle of the Rebellion I will lose all respect for him.

No. GRRM has said Ben joined the NW 'sometime after the Rebellion'. The best we can figure is within a year of Ned returning to WF, so more or less straight away. By that time, Ned was safely home and had a male heir, so Ben was third in line again and only likely to get further away. He had been the Stark in Winterfell throughout the Rebellion, but now his family duties were done with.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

No. GRRM has said Ben joined the NW 'sometime after the Rebellion'. The best we can figure is within a year of Ned returning to WF, so more or less straight away. By that time, Ned was safely home and had a male heir, so Ben was third in line again and only likely to get further away. He had been the Stark in Winterfell throughout the Rebellion, but now his family duties were done with.

Thats right, we forgot about Robb in this whole discuss. Making Benjen once again the third "son". No conspiracy needed.....

Clearly he hadnt met Dacey Mormont before he decided to join up...mmmm Dacey.

 

[Boaz]

Dacey's about thirteen years younger than Ben in my estimation. That's nothing when you're in lust. Mmmmm... doughnuts, err, I meant Dacey!

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Y'all make things needlessly difficult.