Epic Fantasy Novel Word Counts

[psychotick]

Hi,

The Godlost Land went up on Sep 28. And sadly it's not even my longest. Light and Shadow clocked in at 255K. And even the shorter ones aren't that short. Maverick was 186K, Dark Elves 142K and Wildling 130K. I don't think I've got an epic fantasy under your 120K limit.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I don't think I've got an epic fantasy under your 120K limit.

An editor helps reduce wordcount.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

She tries! The sad truth though is that throughout the edit cycles the word count for me has always increased.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Brian G Turner]

She tries! The sad truth though is that throughout the edit cycles the word count for me has always increased.

It may be the case that your editor isn't pushing you enough - you could always try our Critiques section to help.

 

[Tirellan]

These are only guidelines.....but the further you are from the sweet spot, the better the work has to be to justify the length.

 

[Tirellan]

The guidelines migrate once again.
http://jetreidliterary.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/query-question-definitive-absolute-no.html

Particularly noting the 'sweeping epic fantasy' guideline of 150k minimum. Non-sweeping epic fantasy and SF remains 75-125k
No doubt it will move again in another 18 months.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

But what if you do brushing epic fantasy?!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Tirellan]

Spoke to my agent yesterday. He was at World Fantasy Convention and subsequently in New York talking to editors. What they all want is epic fantasy (and SF). Everyone's looking for another SOIAF, or at least something to sell to the masses while they're waiting for GRRM to produce the next book.
Not great news for me since my fantasy novels do not fit under the epic hat.

 

[Robert E. Parkin]

Does demographic with a younger targeted audience apply or change what agents/publishers look in a word count, or is "Epic Fantasy" a genre more considered an "adult" genre? Curious.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

You can have YA epic and word count would be less - typically around 70k max. You'd need to source a specialist YA agent rather than a genre agent, normally.

 

[Wo7f]

I always thought, for new writers, you weren't allowed to go over 100k for any genre? So far, mine might end up as a novella.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

'Not allowed' is a bit misleading - Pat Rothfuss's first novel was The Name of the Wind at about 1000 pages... As ever, it's about the writing and if it's good enough all guidance goes out the window.

But! there are guidelines which if you step outside make it harder. For a novel 100k is about right, top line (although mine's 106 which hasn't been a barrier) but for genre, particularly epic fantasy and, to a lesser extent, space opera, the guidance tends to go up to 120k.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I always thought, for new writers, you weren't allowed to go over 100k for any genre? So far, mine might end up as a novella.

Welcome to chronicles - good to see you finally got in.

As for word counts themselves - as the first post shows, higher word counts are completely normal in fantasy. However, the big, big caveat is whether the word count is justified.

The first draft of my WIP was 700k. I got it down to 250k, then 190k. It's now just over 120k, and I don't feel as though I've actually lost any story. That just shows how badly over-written it was at the start!

I used to worry about word counts, but it's all about quality, not quantity.

 

[Wo7f]

Hi springs! It's just what I've heard. Glad to see its not true. It did help me cut out a lot of unnecessary stuff from my work though.

Thanks Brain, glad I made it too. It's a great site! my first draft was around 90k, got reduced to 60k, and now...actually I need to do another count since my last edit. Lol.

 

[Wo7f]

Just counted, I have 69,092. It's an epic fantasy, so it has to fall under novella. I tried to beef it up, but it is what it is.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Just counted, I have 69,092. It's an epic fantasy, so it has to fall under novella. I tried to beef it up, but it is what it is.

Michael J Sullivan has made quite a success from self-publishing a series of connected novellas, which were later picked up by traditional publishers and re-issued as a series of omnibus novels.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Also, is it adult or young adult - 70k is long for YA and would be fine.

 

[Wo7f]

I'm not sure if it would be YA. I guess you could say it's PG13. For anyone 13 and older. I've been told my writing is too simplistic, but that's how I like things. Simple.
Question. If I plan on self-publishing, would I be able to call it a novel if I wanted to?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm not sure if it would be YA. I guess you could say it's PG13. For anyone 13 and older. I've been told my writing is too simplistic, but that's how I like things. Simple.
Question. If I plan on self-publishing, would I be able to call it a novel if I wanted to?

Yes. Anything above 60k is a novel. But! You don't sound sure what the audience is. 13 year olds want a different thing from 40 year olds. They also move in different circles, have different styles of covers (look at the difference between Harry Potter's for kids and adults) and have different themes. I think if I were you I'd take your time and answer those sort of questions first. (Putting the opening up in crits when you reach 30 posts might be an idea and see how it reads?)

 

[Wo7f]

Thanks springs! I'll do that.