Number layout phone vs calculator

[Astro Pen]

Does anybody know why phone number pads start with 1 at the top and calculators with 1 at the bottom?

 

[tinkerdan]

I seem to recall that on rotary phones the one was at the top but to the right opposite the position that it is in the number pad.
Add to this that they always, here in the US, had the alphabet imbedded starting with ABC coinciding with the number 2.
My guess is that that combo made it more convenient to set the phones up starting with 1 at the top left followed by 2 and ABC.

As to the number pad for calculators--that mirrors the number pad for adding machines and for cash registers and once that had become the norm it was much easier to continue to use when they always had the same pattern. It used to leave me in awe when I watched some of those book-keepers who would use the adding machine without ever looking at the pad. They went blazingly fast.

 

[Elckerlyc]

I could do that and knew instantly when I had hit the wrong key. Long time ago, another (pre PC) era. Book-keeping was endlessly counting numbers (ledger-account-no, dates, amounts...)
But that are only 10 keys. My admiration goes to people who can type blind on a regular keyboard and with more than 2 fingers.

 

[HareBrain]

Add to this that they always, here in the US, had the alphabet imbedded starting with ABC coinciding with the number 2.

This might be part of it, and is true in the UK too, though many phones didn't display it. I've never in the UK seen an ad (for example) telling someone to dial a particular word, but the third and forth numbers of area codes are tied to the alphabet. For example, Chichester, at 01243:

2=ABC
4=GHI

Petersfield, 01730:

7=PQRS
3=DEF

 

[darcietyndall]

It's just necessary so that you don't confuse two different devices. Older people often confuse any keyboards, dial numbers on calculators, and try to call from the TV remote. I think the manufacturers are aware of this, which is why they did such a trick with different layouts of numbers. But now it doesn't matter because all smartphones use keyboards on which the numbers are in a row from left to right. I never miss the keys on new smartphones. And I also try to pass all the captchas correctly. By the way, I often use software to generate phone number. I don't want to leave my number on social networks because I'm afraid of online spammers.

 

[Pyan]

It's just necessary so that you don't confuse two different devices. Older people often confuse any keyboards, dial numbers on calculators, and try to call from the TV remote. I think the manufacturers are aware of this, which is why they did such a trick with different layouts of numbers. But now it doesn't matter because all smartphones use keyboards on which the numbers are in a row from left to right. I never miss the keys on new smartphones. And I also try to pass all the captchas correctly. By the way, I often use software to generate phone number. I don't want to leave my number on social networks because I'm afraid of online spammers.

Just don't answer the puppy...

 

[Swank]

I had to look at a calculator to confirm how weird it is: Left to right, bottom to top? Or, counting down, right to left, top to bottom? That in no way fits with any sort of western ordering paradigm.

So it is likely a system based on typing and number frequency, just like the letter keyboard.

 

[HareBrain]

So it is likely a system based on typing and number frequency, just like the letter keyboard.

I think it's simply that numeric keypads have the lowest numbers closest to the hand's starting position, which is at the bottom. The hand tracks from the bottom upwards in the same way that the eye tracks from left to right.

 

[Danny McG]

Older people often confuse any keyboards, dial numbers on calculators, and try to call from the TV remote

Been there, done that

 

[Swank]

I think it's simply that numeric keypads have the lowest numbers closest to the hand's starting position, which is at the bottom. The hand tracks from the bottom upwards in the same way that the eye tracks from left to right.

What is special about the lowest numbers that they would be closest to the starting position? We don't use keypads to count.

 

[Wayne Mack]

I had to look at a calculator to confirm how weird it is: Left to right, bottom to top? Or, counting down, right to left, top to bottom? That in no way fits with any sort of western ordering paradigm.

So it is likely a system based on typing and number frequency, just like the letter keyboard.

The calculator layout preceded the telephone layout. It was used in early mechanical adding machines. I would say it is more logical than having one to nine followed by zero.

 

[mosaix]

I don’t know how the original positioning of the digits was established for telephones but once it was I couldn’t be changed. The known positioning of the 9 on telephones is important for dialling the emergency number in the dark.

 

[Danny McG]

Someone posted this online....the first two are in error exactly as he posted (I tried right away on my phone calculator)

Unfortunately i no longer have a basic conventional calculator to check his final reckoning
........................................
.
When I put this sum into my phone calculator

130+100 x 5 I get 630

If I change it around a little to
100+130 x 5 then I get 750

When I do them both on a calculator I bought in a pound shop I get 1150 which is the correct answer.

Try this and explain to me what’s happening.

 

[The Judge]

Yep, an ordinary calculator gets the 1150 answer for both ways it's written.

The reason he's getting different answers on his phone is because the calculator takes it as (130 + 100) x 5 and (100 + 130) x 5 ie in each case 230 x 5 which = 1150. But the phone is doing it as 130 + (100 x 5) ie 130 + 500 = 630, and 100 + (130 x 5) ie 100 + 650 which = 750.

Why the phone is doing it like that is beyond me, though!

 

[nixie]

The first two examples are correct, multiplication always come first.
100 + 130 x5 is done 100 x5 then add the 130.
Second one 130 x 5 add the 100.
The last one is just ignoring the rules of maths as I was taught

 

[Elckerlyc]

130 + (100 * 5) = 630
Multiplication comes before adding (or subtraction).
There are certain rules when doing calculations.
Use your phone for making phone calls. Not for calculations.

Edit. I read that wrong.
@Danny McG Are you saying your phone does it better than a dedicated calculator?

 

[Danny McG]

Edit. I read that wrong.
@Danny McG Are you saying your phone does it better than a dedicated calculator?

No, I'm saying I was flummoxed by this Sum thingy

 

[Elckerlyc]

Yeah, I get that.
I gave it a little more thought:
130 + 100 = 230
230 * 5 = 1150
If you hit the = sign between every step you get the wrong answer.
When you enter the whole sum in one go, the calculator will follow the correct order.

 

[The Judge]

Nope, I used the calculator without hitting the = sign until after the 5, I just entered the numbers and the + and x in order -- the calculator takes it in the order it's given.

If it's of any interest, the Judicial Helpmeet has just done it using Reverse Polish Notation which is what he always used when working (in the finace industry where it's important to get sums right!) and it comes out each way as 1150.

 

[farntfar]

I don’t know how the original positioning of the digits was established for telephones but once it was I couldn’t be changed. The known positioning of the 9 on telephones is important for dialling the emergency number in the dark.

It was also true, on old rotary dialling phones, that the emergency number 999 in Britain was chosen both because it was easy to dial in the dark for grown-ups and difficult to dial in any conditions for children, which meant that young children playing with the phone that they found in their house, were unlikely to call emergency services when playing.
This possibly works less well with 911 in the States, although with the arrival of button dialling phones 999 became very easy for kids, and consequently provoked a large number of invalid calls.
At that point 911 was probably better, as young children would be more likely to press the same button multiple times than 2 opposite corners of the keypad.