Could Germany have ever won WWII?

[paranoid marvin]

The US were involved in WWII much earlier than the declaration of war. But would the US have declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't declared war on them? I would say probably not. And after Pearl Harbour, even less so.

 

[CupofJoe]

As I see it…
A war between Japan and the US was inevitable.
Japan wanted to grow its own empire [it had learnt that it needed one from Great Britain and the US and others] and the US didn’t want competition for trade and resources in the Pacific.
The Tripartite Pact was more of an enemy of my enemy is my friend thing.
And everyone should have ignored Mussolini.

 

[Foxbat]

Was war between Japan and the USA was inevitable or simply the most likely outcome?

It has to be remembered that the USA held back after Japan went to war with China in 1937. They didn't want to provoke Japan into a greater conflict but, eventually, Roosevelt began sending aid to China (1940). It also has to be remembered that the USA was the main supplier of oil, steel and iron to Japan. When they began an imbargo of all goods that could be used by the military, this loss hit Japan hard. The war with China was getting bogged down (worsened by the American aid now flowing there) and Japan's war machine was in danger of grinding to a halt. This left the Japanese with very little room to manouver. They needed raw materials and looked south.

They did have the concept of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere with the populist slogan Asia For The Asiatics. This had been an attempt to break away from Western domination with Japan becoming a major player in something like a 1930s version of the EU. In reality, it was simply a way for Japan to extend dominance over other asian nations, and now it became an effective propaganda tool to help whip up popular support.

It was never Yamamoto's intention of defeating America - he knew that he couldn't do that, but he had seen what the British had done to the Italian fleet at Taranto and formulated the attack on Pearl Harbour. He knew that the best he could do was inflict such devastation on the US Pacific fleet that they would be driven to the bargaining table but, of course, that was never going to happen. He didn't know the USA as well as he thought he did.

When it comes to Japan, I always come back to the same question. They must have known that they were never going to win but they did it anyway. Why? Of course, it's difficult for us to understand the mentality but the militarised and warped Code Of Bushido had been appropriated by the hawks in Tokyo and there was very little liklihood of any other path to take. If cooler heads had prevailed war between the two might never have happened. Of course, we then come to the point where such nationalistic fervour would look upon anybody talking of peace to be a traitor to the cause. So, to go full circle, and with all that in mind, perhaps it was inevitable after all.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I think the Japanese saw their fate of the 'death of a thousand cuts'. The US wouldn't openly declare war, but would try to weaken Japan industrially and by supporting its rivals.

I believe that they thought that their only response was a show of force. This would not only help them save face, it would send a warning to nations closer to home to back them, or at least not oppose them.

Could they defeat the US? Of course not, but neither could the US defeat them - especially with a much-weakened navy. It would take the US to significantly ramp up its navy, and they would be taking on the magnificent Japanese fleet and their immense airforce. Even if the US could get past that, they would have to overcome countless small islands, defended to death by the army. And even if they managed that, they would face even geeater hardships once they reached tbe Japanese mainland.

And all this at a time when the US were being urged to join the war in Europe. Would the Americans dare to fight to significant enemies on opposite sides of the world?

No, they did not share the strong samurai spirit of the Japanese armed forces; they would cut a deal, and leave Japan to dominate their Eastern sphere of influence.

Or so they thought.

 

[KGeo777]

If Germany had won I think there would have been an eventual erosion from either outside agitation or internal weakness. The so-called stable international order after 1945 is now in disarray so I would assume something would have happened with reverse circumstances.
The Byzantine Empire was stable for almost 1000 years so they say because it held to rigid standards in governance and an isolationist policy but eventually it was overthrown.


Japan would have won if they had Godzilla (someone suggested that as a movie idea).

 

[Eyeball]

Adolf signed his own death warrant by declaring war on America after Pearl Harbor to show his solidarity with the japs. Bad call..

 

[BAYLOR]

Adolf signed his own death warrant by declaring war on America after Pearl Harbor to show his solidarity with the japs. Bad call..

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America could outproduce the combine economies of the Axis powers Germany , Japan and Italy. There was no winning against that.

 

[BAYLOR]

The US were involved in WWII much earlier than the declaration of war. But would the US have declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't declared war on them? I would say probably not. And after Pearl Harbour, even less so.

Or Something would probably drawn the US into declaring war against Germany. Some incident at sea involving their U-boats perhaps ?

 

[BAYLOR]

If Germany had won I think there would have been an eventual erosion from either outside agitation or internal weakness. The so-called stable international order after 1945 is now in disarray so I would assume something would have happened with reverse circumstances.
The Byzantine Empire was stable for almost 1000 years so they say because it held to rigid standards in governance and an isolationist policy but eventually it was overthrown.


Japan would have won if they had Godzilla (someone suggested that as a movie idea).

Some have speculated that had Germany won the war, the country's economy would have collapsed within a few years . By 1939 The Germany economy was on verge of collapse due to massive debt. They owed billions of Machs in Mefo Bond IOU' debt that paid for the massive public works and rearmament. They either went to war or collapsed. When they took over a country the first thing they did was to loot the conquered nations gold reserves and any factories that could be pressed into service the Third Reich.They did that in Czechoslovakia when thye took the country , The Skoda works made weapon and tanks for the German war machine. Nazi Germany was essentially a parasite economy which In order for it to survive , they had to keep on conquering or collapse .

 

[paranoid marvin]

Or Something would probably drawn the US into declaring war against Germany. Some incident at sea involving their U-boats perhaps ?

The USS Reuben James was sunk by U-Boats two months before Germany declared war on the US.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Some have speculated that had Germany won the war, the country's economy would have collapsed within a few years . By 1939 The Germany economy was on verge of collapse due to massive debt. They owed billions of Machs in Mefo Bond IOU' debt that paid for the massive public works and rearmament. They either went to war or collapsed. When they took over a country the first thing they did was to loot the conquered nations gold reserves and any factories that could be pressed into service the Third Reich.They did that in Czechoslovakia when thye took the country , The Skoda works made weapon and tanks for the German war machine. Nazi Germany was essentially a parasite economy which In order for it to survive , they had to keep on conquering or collapse .

Yes, I know that this has been said, but with Germany having captured the landmass of Europe and having 'acquired' much of its industry and wealth there really would have been no-one to challenge the Nazis.

 

[Eyeball]

Incidentally, if America hadn't entered the war, the nazis would have been free to develop the atom bomb unhindered, and a bomber to carry it-

 

[Swank]

Incidentally, if America hadn't entered the war, the nazis would have been free to develop the atom bomb unhindered, and a bomber to carry it-

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After the war, Heisenberg was interviewed along with all the other German atomic scientists - they hadn't even considered a bomb.

 

[Eyeball]

I'm a 'Civilisation' game player and me and other players bust a gut trying to develop A-bombs before anybody else, so I'm in no doubt Adolf was trying to do the same..

 

[Harpo]

I'm a 'Civilisation' game player and me and other players bust a gut trying to develop A-bombs before anybody else, so I'm in no doubt Adolf was trying to do the same..

What, because you play a game it means things were the same with him 80 years ago? Logical wossnamery

 

[BAYLOR]

Incidentally, if America hadn't entered the war, the nazis would have been free to develop the atom bomb unhindered, and a bomber to carry it-

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Germany was never able to build the industrial type Cyclotrons needed to make fissionable Material . After the war the allies out just how far the German were from a working bomb. They were further hindered by loony tunes racial doctrines which cost them many of their best scientific minds. And it been speculated that Werner Heisenberg may have done everything in his power further hinder the Nazi Bomb project.


As to Me 264 it was too little too late. One could argue that thye death Genera/l Airmarshall Walther Wever in 1936 who was proponent of 4 engine Bombers was fateful turn of events because after wards the FOURengine bomber program was sidelines in favor of two engine bombers. The US was also working on intercontinental Bombers and its' not inconceivable that they might have beaten Germany in that race had the war gone into 1946 and beyond .

 

[Swank]

I'm a 'Civilisation' game player and me and other players bust a gut trying to develop A-bombs before anybody else, so I'm in no doubt Adolf was trying to do the same..

I didn't know Hitler was a gamer.

 

[Eyeball]

What, because you play a game it means things were the same with him 80 years ago? Logical wossnamery

I didn't know Hitler was a gamer.

It's a good thing for Adolf that he wasn't a gamer because we gamers would have had him for breakfast, he might have been good at politics but as a military commander he made every mistake in the book, just like modern politicians who think they know how do do war stuff..

 

[Swank]

It's a good thing for Adolf that he wasn't a gamer because we gamers would have had him for breakfast, he might have been good at politics but as a military commander he made every mistake in the book, just like modern politicians who think they know how do do war stuff..

But his mind could travel through time and know about the atom bombs that didn't exist yet. So he'd beat you.

 

[Eyeball]

..As to Me 264 it was too little too late..

Yes, and anyway if Hitler had wanted to bomb New York he could have used Focke-Wulf Condor airliners like this one that flew the Atlantic and landed at Floyd Bennett field in NY before the war.
Admittedly a Condor bomber version wouldn't have had the range to fly back to Europe after dropping its bombs and the crew would have had to bail out to be picked up by a U-boat, but at least Adolf would have scored a propaganda victory by bragging "I bombed New York"..