Writing and submitting your stories -- Questions for K. D. Wentworth

[Mark Robson]

I like writing both short stories and novels, but they are different beasts. Short stories are short term gratification. I can finish one in a week if I really push myself and then have something in hand to send out. Novels are like comfort food. When I'm working on one, I know every day for months exactly what I'm going to be working on and don't have to sit staring at a blank screen. I get to spend a lot of time with the characters and setting I've created and see where it all leads.

They each scratch a different itch and not everyone can do both. I'm lucky that my brain likes both forms. The only formula that I use is Algis Budry's Seven Point Plot, which works equally well for short and long fiction.

None of my novels have had a UK publication, although I have been published in Russia. They are all still in print though, and available from Amazon.

Thank you, that's most enlightening. I recently wrote a short story for a workshop that I was running. I found it very difficult to do. I guess my brain works better with longer storylines. I've never heard of Algis Budry's Seven Point Plot, but you can be sure that I'm going to go looking for information about it now.

Having corresponded, you can be sure that I'll look out your work on amazon sometime this year. I'll not promise an immediate purchase, but I'll get there in the end.

 

[kdwentworth]

Hello, Kathy. Welcome to Chronicles. As an author of novels I am in awe of your ability to turn out both a substantial number of novels and a plethora of short stories that have all made it into print.

Firstly I'd like to know which you find easier to write - the short stories, or the novels? Do you have a fundamentally different approach to writing stories of such vastly differing lengths, or do you work to a generic formula that you can adapt depending on the type of idea/suitability for either novel or short?

Also, I'm ashamed to say that despite your impressive list of titles I don't believe I've ever read anything of yours. Have any been distributed in the UK at all, or have they all remained in the US?

Short stories are short term gratification for me. I can write one in a week or two, if I really try, then have something in hand to send out. Novels are more like comfort food. When I'm working on one, I know every day for months what I'm going to be working on and don't have to stare at a blank screen trying to come up with ideas. They're such different beasts that I can do one of each at the same time, working on a novel in the morning and a short story in the afternoon. That's what I'm doing right now, as a matter of fact.

The only formula I pay attention to for short stories is Algis Budrys's seven point plot. For novels, I think about Dwight Swaim's anatomy of a scene (goal--conflict--disaster). Budrys has a wonderful book called Writing to the Point and Swaim' best writing book is titled Techniques of the Selling Writer. I highly recommend them both.

I haven't had an English publication, though I would certainly love for my books to appear there. I have been published in Russian, though, and one of my stories is going to be published in Sweden soon. All of my books are still in print and available from Amazon.

 

[kdwentworth]

Kathy, You say you're wretched at outlining, but when you do outline what form does that outline take? I find that my outline for a novel totals no more than a single side of paper. I'm pretty good at utilising that outline to keep me on track, but I don't really detail the story - I just bullet point the main events that have to happen to make the story work. Are you more inclined towards a detailed outline, or are you a quick sketch and dive in type?

Until I read Lawrence Block's Writing the Novel: From Plot to Print, I couldn't write a novel because everyone said you had to be able to outline and I flat out couldn't. Mr. Block says he can't either. He just kills someone on the first page and goes on from there, creating as much trouble as he can along the way so his main character will have something to do.

So, I set out to write an sf murder mystery, following those vague outlines. I aimed for three pages a day and six months later I'd completed my first novel. I wrote four more with the same method.

I've only written one outline for a novel before I sold it, Stars/Over/Stars. I wrote that one because Jim Baen said I had to, but he also said I didn't have to go by it. So I wrote it. He bought the book, and then I didn't go by it.

My problem is that my subconscious just won't cough up the details unless I'm actually writing. I can't recommend this method because editors don't like it. Your professional writing life will be much easier if you can outline. I just can't write a good one to save my soul.

The way I plot is more organic. I set up my characters and setting, put the central plot problem into motion, and from there it's like weaving. Everything is based on what came before and grows organically.

 

[scalem X]

When considering your "weaving" technique, I can't help but recognize some sort of my own style, which leads me to another question:
When you realise there is a mistake in the content of your novel/short story (If you have ever encountered this before) how do you try to cover it up?
An example of your own would be very useful and would be appreciated.
If you've never encountered a problem like that before, try this (I have many in reserve ):
I originally planned to have a person have dinner with the parents of his deceased girlfriend and started writing, but somehow I seem to have skipped the guy's lunch.

 

[Mark Robson]

My problem is that my subconscious just won't cough up the details unless I'm actually writing. I can't recommend this method because editors don't like it. Your professional writing life will be much easier if you can outline. I just can't write a good one to save my soul.

The way I plot is more organic. I set up my characters and setting, put the central plot problem into motion, and from there it's like weaving. Everything is based on what came before and grows organically.

Ah! I know exactly what you mean! Today, I wrote like a god ... but how often does that happen? Furthermore, the stuff I wrote wasn't in the outline ... so I changed the outline. I guess that's the way it works sometimes.

I consider myself fortunate at the moment, as my editor seems to trust my instinct for storyline. When she bought my latest book, the deal included a sequel. My problem was that I'd conceived the story as a 'one off'. I'd killed the villain and tied up all the loose ends. As you can imagine, that was not the version that made it into print.

Having re-opened the ending to allow a sequel, my second problem became how to write a story that I'd never intended to write. They'd bought it, but they didn't specify what they wanted. When I finally came up with a storyline I liked, I found that the over-arching story didn't end. (Who writes fantasies in twos anyway?) I explained the problem and there was lots of sucking of teeth as they were only committed to two books. I sent them the storyline and was told to write it the way I wanted. When I sent the draft a few weeks ago, the editor only suggested one significant change, and that was over something I'd already identified as a weakness in the story myself. I guess I must be doing something right.

I was pretty good at sticking to the vague outline I'd given the publisher in this case, but my outlines are always vague. I find, like you, that to tie myself down to lots of detail restricts the flow and development of my stories. My best scenes, like the one I wrote today, are often not even in the plan, but are borne out of logic and a sense of place within the setting. Gah! How does one define a gut instinct for what is right?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not very good at outlining either!

 

[kdwentworth]

Kathy, another question: when you submit stories, do you have a standard submission letter, or do you tailor the submission letter to the publisher/type of story being submitted?

Also, when you write the synopsis of the piece you are submitting, what are you looking to achieve? To set hooks? To give a good understanding of the story? It strikes me that many people who try to write a synopsis (particularly of a novel) feel that they have to include all the twists and turns. What do you look to include and how do you decide what the prospective publisher does not need to know?

I write a very short cover letter, asking the editor to please consider the enclosed story, telling whether the manuscript is disposable or not, and then listing a few of my best credits, usually the top four or five. When I didn't have any credits, I just closed by thanking the editor for his/her time and saying I looked forward to hearing from them (which wasn't always strictly true!).

NEVER include a synopsis of a short story. It should stand on its own. When submitting a novel, the editor wants to know what kind of novel it is (sf, fantasy, alternate history?), how long it is, and whether or not it is FINISHED. Some publishers want a synopsis, others don't, so follow stated guidelines on that.

Synopses are traditionally one to three pages long, single-spaced, and often written in present tense. No one will refuse to buy a novel though if you've done it differently. They're just supposed to give the editor the general sweep of the novel, not every twist and turn.

 

[Paradox 99]

Hi Kathy, yet another question for you.
At this very moment I'm composing a brief cover letter. As part of the submission process they ask the writer to tell them a little about themselves.

As a new writer, I'm struggling with that. What are they really interested in when they ask this. If I were to tell them that I work as a Data Monkey for Clinical Trials, that I like keeping fit and that I'm married with no kids, I get the feeling they won't really be interested in all of that.
I don't have any novels published yet (though I have written 5 books), so I don't have any kind of impressive resume to woo them with. All I can tell them that I feel is relevant, is that I have an unquenchable thirst to write!

Any advice?

Thanks once again.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

There have been some questions about what the Seven Point Plot actually is, so I started a thread on the subject.

According to what I was able to turn up, it seems like there is quite a bit of room for discussion, and I'm interested to hear what other people think.

 

[kdwentworth]

Hi, Kathy, welcome to the Forum! It is a privilege to have a well-known author like you with us. You are an inspiration to us aspiring science fiction/fantasy writers.

I have several questions for you:

1) Aside from Tor, do you know any other publishing house that regularly publishes juvenile science fiction/fantasy? Does Del Rey publish juvenile Science fiction and Fantasy?
2) Do you think it’s better to find an agent first or to submit directly to a publisher? Is it the same for juvenile scifi and fantasy?
3) This is a stupid question but I’m kind of confused now. What do you think about the idea of including 2 synopses, the first one 1-page long and the second one 3 pages long, and let the agent or editor choose which one he or she wants to read?
4) Would recommendations by a well-known published author help a novel get published? Do you get a lot of requests for reading manuscripts from aspiring writers?

Thank you very much!

Jeremy, I don't know much about marketing YA fiction but I'm almost finished with a YA fantasy western, so I'm about to find out. I'll come back here and post once I do some market research.

It's okay to look for an agent, but you shouldn't let the lack of one keep you from submitting your book. If you should get an offer on a book, then you can easily get an agent. Just make sure you only submit to one house at a time.

I think it would be better just to put in one synopsis. Just choose the one you like best, whether it's the shorter one or the longer one.

I don't think recommendations by otheitr authors do a whole lot of good. I do get asked sometimes, but I almost never read for people. To begin with, I really don't have time, and then, if I do read the manuscript and think it's not quite there yet, the author is always unhappy with me, so we've both wasted our time.

 

[The_Cosmic_Quest]

Hello Kathy. I just want to know what would give me a better chance of getting my short stories published - submitting them to a magazine, one at a time. Or trying to get a collection of them published as one short story book. The latter is what I really want to do...
Thanks.

 

[kdwentworth]

Hello Kathy, welcome to the Chronicles Network, and thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.

My question is: how often, if at all, have you started with an idea for a short story which has subsequently been developed into longer fiction? Equally, has this ever happened to you the other way round? Or do you tend to know straight away whether an idea is one best suited to the short story format or to the novel?

I look forward to your thoughts - thanks.

Patrick, early on, I had trouble telling a short story idea from a novel idea, but it's gotten easier. My first novel began with a chapter that I'd written as a story, then realized it was just the beginning of a much longer piece. When you write a story and realize the conflict has neither been fully explored, nor resolved, it should be a novel.

Short stories are like one verse of a song. Novels are like a whole opera. Sometimes I have to write a few pages to see how the story goes before I know what it is and even my short stories seem to be getting longer these days.

OTOH, I recently wrote a story for an anthology titled Twenty Epics, which wanted an epic fantasy in 5000 words or less, which is about twenty pages. That was a fascinating exercise in cramming a novel's worth of story into very few pages. Managing it was a matter of letting a lot of the story be implied, rather than spelled out on the page.

 

[kdwentworth]

Hi, Kathy. Thanks for taking time to visit with us. I see on your website that you teach school, so I know that you have more than enough to keep you busy even aside from your writing. We appreciate it very much.

Obviously, it is important for anyone serious about their writing to work on a steady basis, as opposed to just whenever "the spirit moves". So, I was wondering how you deal with the days when you just don't feel inspired to write, especially when you have a deadline approaching.

A sort of related issue is interruptions. Do you have a secluded place to write, at least a room where you can close the door and tell people not to knock unless someone is bleeding or the house is on fire? If not, how do you deal with interruptions for non-essential issues?

This is kind of an off-beat question, but I'll ask it anyway. I love to write. I think its hard work, but I also think it is immensely fun. For some reason, everyone I know out here in the real world tells me that this attribute makes me certifiable. So, do you have fun when you write? Is the process of it, in itself, enjoyable for you? Or am I as odd as my friends tell me I am?

Thanks very much for your time, Kathy.

Actually, I retired from teaching several years ago (got to update that website!), but I put twenty-seven years in first, fifteen of them after I started writing.

My method is to write three pages a day, when writing first draft. They don't have to be good pages, I tell myself (to turn off the editor inside my head), they just have to be done. Every day, I start by rereading yesterday's three pages, then write three more. Other people have a higher goal, but when I try, they seem more loosely written and require more rewriting the next day, so three pages is the right amount for me.

As for whether I find writing fun, yes, I do. I have a writer friend, Sean Stewart, who spend a lot of time asking other writers about this. He said they all fall into two categories: Writers who think writing is like comfort food and Writers who think writing is dreadfully hard work. I am of the first camp. I write when I'm sad, lonely, depressed, and discouraged, and it always cheers me up. I don't watch much tv anymore because the story has to be more interesting (to me) than the one currently playing in my head and it rarely is.

So, no, I don't think you're weird. I think you're lucky to enjoy what you do. I suppose I would still write, if I found it hard, but I'm glad it entertains me.

 

[kdwentworth]

Hello Kathy. Thank you for your time to answer all these questions of us ignorant fools…

My first question is about the synopsis. I’ve heard maybe a hundred different stories about a synopsis; could you give a brief outline what definitely should be in it? And how long should it be? I heard also tons of stories about the length… Please enlighten us.

Second, I’m still busy with writing my story, but one of my close mates is a great artist. He has drawn a possible cover for it already. I think his picture perfectly captures the feeling and atmosphere of the story. How much of a saying has the writer in the final cover of a book? Can s/he decide on the artist? Can s/he disagree with the cover so another one will be made?

The same question as above, but then concerning lay-out: Is a writer free to do what s/he want with things like font type?

That’ll be all for now. Thanks once more for showing up and enlightening us.

I answered this yesterday, but I included a link and the whole post just went away!

A synopsis should be one to three pages, single-spaced, and written in present tense. It's intended to demonstrate what kind of novel it is and how the action will go. It proves that you won't just wander about aimlessly with not idea how to end.

As for covers, writers get no input. Occasionally, an editor will send me the cover, but just so I can admire it. It's my job to write the book. It's their job to sell it. A cover is supposed to make the prospective reader notice the book there on the shelf among all the other books. It would be nice for me, the author, if it accurately reflected the story within, but that's secondary to its purpose of selling the book.

One of my books, Black/on/Black, has a misleading cover with a hot babe (complete with torn clothes and heaving bosom). She's actually a secondary character and is described as this slim wiry soldier. A few months after the book came out, a book dealer asked me if I wasn't embarassed by that cover. I told him no, that the job of the cover was to sell the book, then asked if he had any stock he wanted me to sign. He said that he didn't because as soon as he got any copies, he sold them. He couldn't keep it in stock! I would have liked a more representative cover, but then it probably wouldn't have sold as well.

You can ask for your friend, if you sell the book, but it probably won't do any good. In the meantime, though, he should take his portfolio to some publishers and try to get work. Also, he should enter the Illustrators of the Future Contest (details on the Writers of the Future website). It could provide lots of money in prizes, commissioned work for the anthology (more money), and a professional credit to boost his career.

As for font size, go with 12-point Courier or a similar monospaced serif font. The more your submission looks right, like other professional writers' submissions, the more the editor is predisposed to think you know what you're doing and this is a piece that is worth her time.

 

[kdwentworth]

Hi Kathy and thanks for taking time out for us.

I'm not an aspiring author but I've spoken with many and quite often the 'rules for submission' come up. It seems that there are some industry standards out there that when not followed is the first 'cull' of unsolicited manuscripts. Is this true? If a specific formatting rule is ignored (font size) does the 'script get tossed into the circular file immediately? Are there rules that can be broken but still get your manuscript read?

While we're on the subject, if you know, could you tell us what the most important submitting rules are?

I appreciate the time!
And welcome to our quirky forum!

I don't think there's anything so awful in formatting that the editor won't at least read part of the first page. BUT, if the font is tiny or it's all in italics or some funky curvy font that's difficult to read, if the paper is pink or there's borders around all the text, extra spaces between all the paragraphs, the manuscript is bound, or contains illustrations or maps, that's a sign that the writer has not done her homework. The prose might be great, but the chances are small. Correct format is a signal that you take yourself seriously as a writer and follow the rules. There's a good file on correct format at the SFWA site, SFWA.org (I can't put the link or my post will get eaten again). Follow the links to Resources, then Vonda McIntyre.

The most important submitting rules are to read and follow the guidelines. At Writers of the Future, we have a very generous 17,000 word limit, but people are always sending us longer pieces. They think I won't notice how long it is. But I know that, correctly formatted, 17,000 words is about 65 pages. If you send me a 90 page document and swear your spellchecker says is 17,000 words, I don't believe you and I won't read it.

If the guidelines say no child protagonists, no horror, no present tense, or no detectives, then don't waste your time (or the editor's) by submitting inappropriate stories. It also helps to read at least one issue (or several) of any magazine you wish to sell work to. That puts you way ahead of the game when trying to decide where to send a piece.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Kathy, sorry about the eaten posts. It's in the software. But you're very close to the magic 15th message, after which you'll be free to add links with abandon.

We all very much appreciate the wisdom and insight you've been sharing.

 

[Mark Robson]

Kathy, sorry about the eaten posts. It's in the software. But you're very close to the magic 15th message, after which you'll be free to add links with abandon.

We all very much appreciate the wisdom and insight you've been sharing.

I second that. I know how valuable my spare time is - the fact that I choose to fritter some of it here is by the by. I very much appreciate your insights. I have blundered into becoming a professional author by the backdoor, so I missed out on a lot of the tedious submissions and rejections. The few I did notch up were well deserved - I now feel a lot better equipped to tackle such things in the future.

I'm not sure if this is common, but my agent now does my submission letters and writes a synopsis where it is required. As he does appear very good at it, I'm not about to protest. The Author magazine (The official magazine of the Society of Authors in the UK) singled him out in a recent article as someone who presents a 'package deal' approach, selling both the manuscript and the author. I certainly wouldn't want to cramp his style given his track record.

 

[Marky Lazer]

Thanks Katy for your detailed and thorough answer. Answered them two times even!

 

[kdwentworth]

Hello Kathy.
In echo of everyone else here - Welcome! And thanks so much for taking the time to read through our questions and then answer them.

I have two, though Littlemissattitude beat me to it with the first one. I will expand on it a teeny bit though. Do you go along with the idea that a writer should make an effort to write something everyday even when they're not in the mood? Or do you believe it's more important to devote time to writing when the creative flame is burning brightest? I suppose its a little of column A and B, but I'd like to hear your take on that.

Second question: When writing complex and lengthy stories, I find that as it's flowing onto the page, there will be little facts, descriptions or character details that get plucked out of the air and aren't significantly part of the overall plot (they just felt like an interesting touch at the time). However, several chapters down the line, I find that these little inspirations become more important than I'd first anticipated. Do you have a method to track these things? Or like me, do you have trawl back through the chapters to find out what it was you wrote at the time?

Thank you.

I am a big believer in writing every day, whether you're "in the mood," or not. Writing is tapping into your subconscious, learning to make that connection at will. Doing that is like developing a muscle. It gets easier with constant attention and effort.

As for little things becoming more important later, that's the organic weaving of plot I was talking about earlier. The subconscious throws these details out and then uses them as you go. I keep a notebook for every novel I write and it includes character descriptions, a running synopsis of every chapter, time of day for each scene (really important because it's so easy to make time mistakes), what day it is since the beginning of the book, and any other specialized information I've created, like cultural aspects of aliens, worldbuilding details, and layout of the local landscape.

And even though I do this, sometimes I just have to go back and look anyway!

 

[kdwentworth]

Kathy, You say you're wretched at outlining, but when you do outline what form does that outline take? I find that my outline for a novel totals no more than a single side of paper. I'm pretty good at utilising that outline to keep me on track, but I don't really detail the story - I just bullet point the main events that have to happen to make the story work. Are you more inclined towards a detailed outline, or are you a quick sketch and dive in type?

I'm inclined to do the quick sketch because I loathe the process and I know it's not going to be as inventive as the book itself will be. Why an editor would tell you that you have to write an outline even though you don't have to go by it is beyond me, but they will.

 

[scalem X]

Why an editor would tell you that you have to write an outline even though you don't have to go by it is beyond me, but they will.

It's more some sort of test I think. They want to see if you can capture a(nother) whole story idea. They can also use it as a statement when your novel isn't ready in time or when other troubles occur. Something like: "but you had the idea, all you had to do is write it down. How can it still be unfinished? when you wanted to change the plot, that was your decision ..."

Damn I seem to understand editors help I have an editor's mind...
*runs away screaming*