Lightbringer

Aegon the Unworthy said:
But thats just it....even the enemies are dumb....

I mean really that whole Unsullied thing could have gone so differently....no really take every fighting man in the city....seriously, youre too stupid to turn around and kill us all....

As for the other city....I forget the name...

Do ya think the leaders were sitting around one day...

"Man we got some great walls here, and stout fighting men to defend em...and by sea, forget about it...youre better off just setting youre own ships on fire...I know theres the sewer tunnels but we have iron grates on those, so we;re safe, no ones coming in that way"


Case in point....WWII the French Maginot line sounds so surprisingly analagous to their strategy...."You cant get tanks through Belgium...thats impossible....so our incredibly well thought-out entrenchment with its one tiny hole a country wide is safe"....bah!

Seriously, do you see Lord Tywin or even the phenom that was Robb Stark falling for these ploys....theres a host of others as well that wouldnt be that dumb in the west, but over in the east they dont have a single captain that would just say "Hey....wait a minute...."

Face it...Danys the normal kid who winds up in the remedial english class and starts looking like a genius...



Thanks

I feel better
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WOW!
I thought I misread your original post thought.
So if understand you not only is she surrounded by dumb people but her enemies are a bunch of knuckle heads too. How does that girl do it?
Wont you give her any credit for what she has overcome and done?
 
I'm not too keen on Dany, either. I can give her some kudos for coming this far- not hard to do. But I just can't bring myself to like her.

As for the sewer thing- well, I never gave it much thought. But, sometimes it comes down to one little thing like a sewer to make a city fall. It worked for Tolkien, why not Martin?
 
There seems to be a consensus in this thread that Beric's sword is lit on fire through trickery, but I (murkily) recall that it actually flames up of its own accord. Is anyone sure (or does anyone have ASOS handy to find out?-I lent out my copy.)
 
Sorry to double post, but I forgot to talk about Melisandre. I believe she embodies a combination of self-interest and delusion. I've always viewed the realtionship between Melisandre and Stannis and his inner circle as a parallel to Rasputin and the Russian royal family. The way Melisandre worked her way to Stannis through his wife is very similar to how Rasputin got in good graces with Nicolas II through the Czarina; and there are indications that Melisandre and Stannis are heading down the same path to destruction.
 
Luckily, I do have all the books to hand...

Page 497 of A Storm of Swords: Steel and Snow, British Paperback...

"Unsmiling, Lord Beric laid the edge of his longsword against the palm of his left hand, and drew it slowly down. Blood ran dark from the gash he made, and washed over the steel.
And then the sword took fire."

Over the page it goes on to say..

"Is it wildfire?" Arya asked Gendry
"No. This is different. This is..."
"...magic?" she finished as the Hound edged back.

So just Beric Dondarrion's blood igniting the sword - I knew there was a reason I had that hunch...

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Yossarian!

xx
 
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Adasunshine said:
Luckily, I do have all the books to hand...

Page 497 of A Storm of Swords: Steel and Snow, British Paperback...

"Unsmiling, Lord Beric laid the edge of his longsword against the palm of his left hand, and drew it slowly down. Blood ran dark from the gash he made, and washed over the steel.
And then the sword took fire."

Over the page it goes on to say..

"Is it wildfire?" Arya asked Gendry
"No. This is different. This is..."
"...magic?" she finished as the Hound edged back.

So just Beric Dondarrion's blood igniting the sword - I knew there was a reason I had that hunch...

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Yossarian!

xx
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Good on you ADA! Ive been working on memory totally thought he was working with wildfire. Thanx.
 
Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer in the blood of his beloved... so does Lightbringer actually feed on blood? Is it empowered by blood? Does this mean Beric's sword is Lightbringer or do all Asshaian (or is it Asshite, Asshard, Asshese, Asshish) swords use blood ?

Danaerys went into the flames of Drogo's funeral pyre and was unburnt. Stannis went to great lengths to keep from roasting during the Lightbringer ceremony. Jon burnt his hand quite badly battling the wight. Of these three, I'd say that Dany is the best candidate for AA reborn.
 
Boaz said:
Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer in the blood of his beloved... so does Lightbringer actually feed on blood? Is it empowered by blood? Does this mean Beric's sword is Lightbringer or do all Asshaian (or is it Asshite, Asshard, Asshese, Asshish) swords use blood ?

Danaerys went into the flames of Drogo's funeral pyre and was unburnt. Stannis went to great lengths to keep from roasting during the Lightbringer ceremony. Jon burnt his hand quite badly battling the wight. Of these three, I'd say that Dany is the best candidate for AA reborn.
Click to expand...

(I like Asshish. Hee hee.)

Ahem! Anyway- the fire that is created on Beric's sword is a different kind of fire than the ones the almost burned/burned Jon and Stannis. And, Melisandre's mantra these days concerns using blood to feed the flames, blah blah blah. I don't think the sword itself matters. It's the sacrifice which does.
 
maybe it's Hashish(silent 'h' Spanish style):D anyway...

I'm not a five-star general or a military tactician or anything, so I can't pass judgement, but it seemed to me that Dany's military exploits were fairly sound. Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I had the impression that the reason Dany was so successful was precisely that her enemies thought her too dumb and weak to do anything to them. She herself makes note of their underestimation in her quote, "I am but a young girl and know little of the ways of war." But that doesn't really matter because it's not as if she is formulating battle plans or anything, she has advisers and generals to do that for her, she never claims any military genius for herself. And it's not as if her enemies are battle-hardened he-men anyway. They've only survived depredation because they pay eveyone off. The book talks about how the vestigial army prances round the city in copper and punk hairdos, and that just didn't impress me as an intimidating military. I mean, it's not as if they're Spartans or anything, they're comparable to the decadent Romans before the sack. Sorry to rant but I had to at least try to come to the defense of my favorite dragon-wielding princess. Oh! That's another point! She's got dragons, which for as of now are only good for the shock-and-awe factor(which shouldn't be underestimated), but later they are going to be the heart and soul of her forces. As for the people not getting the pronoun right, it never explains anything about the Valyrian language. Perhaps they don't have gender-specific pronouns or perhaps the wording didn't include a pronoun but said something like,"A great dragon shall rise once more", or something equally obtuse. Also, Valyrian is pretty much a dead language, besides the flavored versions found in the Free Cities, and there might not be anyone who is very fluent in it anymore, rather like Latin.Okay, done for real now...
 
I'm with you on this one Smiling Weirwood. Dany rocks. She is the prophecy and will conquer Westeros. Actually, Westeros is also kind of like Rome before its fall (or America in the modern world). Decadent. Rotting from the inside.
 
You know I can accept the fact people feel differently about Dany than I. Just makes sense. She's a significant part of the book, but to me Dany POV chapters are just as bad as Cersei chapters....just waiting for em to end...

So even if all of the east underestimates Dany, why are they underestimating her advisors as well? Thats not how you make war. I can accept Astapor, really in my heart of hearts I can accept the whole Unsullied thing...stupid but there ya go. I can accept the mercenary companies she dealt with....the whole wine, betrayal, attack thing. But the next city in line and that damn unguarded sewer grate.....aggghhh

The difference between Tolkeens "grate in the wall" and Martins is huge. Tolkeens was hole that let the river out (so to speak)...you break the grate youre still right there at the wall....Martins is an underground sewer...you break the grate you could be anywhere in the city....but yeah, I should just chalk it up to writers perogative and get more sleep at night.

But as for the pronoun thing.....I was pointing out how Aemon didnt know about the possibility there was another Rhaegar offspring....not making an indictment on the Valyrian language. But you're probably right...probably said something about a Dragon rising and conquering westeros....still dont think its Dany though...

Thanks for letting me vent
 
Why are we discussing poor city and defence planning? JRR Tolkien is rolling over in his grave...

Anyways, back to the sword. Arya Underfoot's point was that the sacrifice is what's important not necessarily the sword. Therefore, I ask who's sacrifice will give us Lightbringer? Could Jon be that sacrifice and could it be that Melissandre sniffs out his Targaryen blood? Unlikely, but just another "theory" to try to refocus.
 
I actually know the answer to this question, TK.
It was in a sample chapter which GRRM released on his website long before he was going to split the book.

Unless of course he's changed it since then, but I doubt it as it seemed evil/horrific enough to keep in.

I can let you know by PM if you'd like, or you can enjoy the suspense until ADwD :)
 
What if Lightbringer isn't a literal sword at all but actually refers to a person who wields a sword as in 'Sworn Sword'?

Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer in the blood of his beloved...

One way you could interpret that is Azor Ahai fathering his child, who is Lightbringer by his lover who dies in child birth.

Now Jon could be said to be a 'sworn sword' to the Night's Watch...
 
I like the theory but the legend of Lightbringer also involves the "two failures" prior where Azor Ahai quenched the sword in water (and it shattered) then in oil (and it still shattered). It was only when he plunged the sword into the breast of his beloved (thus killing her) was Lightbringer formed.

Anyone else drawing any parallels between Lightbringer/Azor Ahai and Stormbringer/Elric of Melniborne or is it just me?
 
If I may press on with Tom's line of reasoning... this means the whole story of AA is a metaphor.

WS, what if Azor's first wife/mate was from an island or across the sea? Could she be analogous to water? What if his second wife/mate came from a people renowned for their use of oil?

Could Dany's story be told a thousand years later in this manner?

Danaerys Stormborn was the mother of Aegon, the Great Dragon. But she struggled many years before her sons birth. First she married the Horse, but the Horse was not stong enough and he died on the plains. Next, the Bear professed his love and loyalty, but the Bear was faithless. Twice unlucky, Dany finally found the hidden Dragon... only Dragons may bring forth a Dragon.
 
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