Is Mazrim Taim Demandred?

Winters_Sorrow said:
I'm still cheesed off that Robert Jordan invented Balefire which erases people from existance only for these 'dead' forsaken to come back thanks to the Dark Lord's intervention.
Massive, massive cop-out there and completely devalues his series IMO :mad:
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I don't know of any Forsaken that have been returned after being singed with Balefire off-hand, but I can see how that may work.

The Chosen, I believe, were stuck in a limbo like state until freed by the Dark Lord. Unless the Balefire was strong enough to wipe them from all existance, unlikely as they are quite ancient now, all that it would have done is erase thier involvement in this current Age.

The Dark Lord would then be able to release them upon the world again, or rather the first time again.

Could be wrong, but that is just a thought.:confused:
 
Looks like this post is fairly old but had to add my two cents after reading
LOC a second time.

Robert Jordan was quoted as saying that Demandred has "never posed as Taim" and ends the sentence with a cryptic remark about truth and Aes Sedai. Has anyone given any thought to the fact that all the Forsaken have real names that they went by before they 'turned'? Lanfear's real name is mentioned in Book 4. What if Demandred is Mazrim Taim, has been always, so therefore he is not posing at all. He simply is.

References are made to the fact that the Forsaken don't want to remember their true selves but Demandred is probably arrogant enough to do this - after all he hates Lews Therin the most, envied him the most, so who better to be than his real self as he pits himself against Rand, whom he would really see as Lews Therin?
 
flammableliquids said:
But i disagree that Sammael's soul would have been outside the reach of the Dark One simply because Mashadar took it.
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Yes it would because remember that Mashadar was an evil in direct opposition to the shadow of the Dark lord and (I assume) it consumed their souls as well as destroying their bodies so a Darkfriend would lose their soul and The dark one an't get them back after being consumed by Mashadar

I was wondering if someone out there can answer something that i don't understand..... Liah, the Maiden of the spear who was left behind in Shadar Logoth and latter killed by Al'thor..... why did she hide from her spear sisters, getting her left behind for all that time? Was she a dark friend? and the touch of the dark one in her soul coupled with the darkness of Mashadar drove her nutz? i just don't get it. there i just SUCH a hole in it, i don't understand y.
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remember what happened to Matt, The taint of Mashadar and Shadar Logoth drove people crazy and especially made them suspicious of any other person. Before Liah ran away remember she thought they were really not who they were (Or something like that) so she had simply succumbed to the taint that Killed Shadar Logoth and created Mashadar

NO Taim is NOT Sammael.
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Agreed. But I don't even think he is truly a Darkfriend but merely someone out to carve an empire for himself (Basically an opportunist)
 
TimeKiller HOLY CRAP! no offense but you need to read up some more. Balthemel was the womanizer and placed as Aran'gar. Aginor was teh shadowspawn creator and wasn placed in Osan'gar. Osan'gar was killed at the battle of Shadar Logoth.
 
MeredithMeredith said:
Robert Jordan was quoted as saying that Demandred has "never posed as Taim" and ends the sentence with a cryptic remark about truth and Aes Sedai. Has anyone given any thought to the fact that all the Forsaken have real names that they went by before they 'turned'? Lanfear's real name is mentioned in Book 4. What if Demandred is Mazrim Taim, has been always, so therefore he is not posing at all. He simply is.
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I know this is a bit old but what the hell.... pretty sure it says that the forsaken were all well known public figures before they turned to the dark one and their names were known. And didn't Lews Therin and Demandred fight together in the War of Power before Demandred turned due to "envy of Lews Therin"? So surely Lews Therin would remember the name Mazrim Taim, if that was the case.
 
Karbaruko,

Regarding what you said in your last post (new here and learning how to post), when Rand was locked in the chest before Dumai's Wells and prior, every time he would encounter Taim, Lews Therin would go off on a spiel about Demandred and Sammael. Rand already knew that Sammael was in Illian, but Demandred's location wasn't known. I think there is a good chance that he could be Demandred, but in re-reading the series, I've only just finished Lord of Chaos, hence my sudden thought of "what if Taim is Demandred??" and searching here.

Demandred "never posed as" Taim, but to pose as someone else, you're pretending to be who that person is. What if there wasn't a Taim before Demandred assumed the identity? Therefore, he wouldn't be posing. He would BE Taim, and also Demandred. Although Demandred is his true identity (supposing he is D after all...), he was still Taim.

Taim's knowledge of battle, no matter what his experiences with Aes Sedai before, are also suspicious. Who knows how long the first Forsaken/Chosen were out? Maybe long enough for Demandred to pretend a false dragon, to pull the real Dragon out, and/or hopefully take care of him before Rand is able to do any harm to the Dark One?
 
We know Demandred's real name: Barid Bel Medar, not Mazrim Taim.

I can't see how you can spin RJ's words to make Taim Demandred. However, I do wonder if he was leading us down the wrong path deliberately, making us think Taim was Demandred whilst Taim was actually Sammael (assuming he really isn't dead). That would be an interesting trick if he or Sanderson pulled it off successfully.
 
SPOILER FOR " WINTER'S HEART "



Mazrim Taim can not be Demandred because in the last chapter of Winter's Heart on pages 752/753. Demandred has just come from Shayol Ghul to where Rand and Nynaeve are using the Choedan Kal.

While in the forest he comes across Damer Flinn, Sarene and Corele linked. Demandred does not recognize Flinn thinking he is just an old man with two women. He even hesitates to try and kill them because that would alert Rand and the other of his whereabouts.

If Demandred was Taim, he would have known an Asha'man especially one whom was close to Rand.

Sorry guys, Demandred is not Mazrim Taim. :)
 
Mazrim Taim is definitely one of the Forsaken. Remember when Rand was showing off the farm Mazrim Taim talked about the so-called Aiel. Only the Forsaken talked about the Aiel that way since they remember them as servants who renounce violence and not as warriors.
 
I was thinking that it might just be possible that Taim could be Asmodean. There's no mention of Taim, really, other than his excape, until LoC, and Asmodean's role is only in tSR and FoH. of course, I don't really have any motive established for why the DO would bring him back, and the personality traits aren't really the same, but I can't really see any of the other male forsaken masquerading as Taim. Definitely not 1) Sammael 2) Ishamael 3) Aginor 4) Balthamel 5)Demandred 6) Be'lal 7) Rahvin....Just leaves Asmodean.
 
Firstly, welcome to the Chronicles, regogene, badrack and Galahad.:)

Hmm, my own opinions on Taim. When I read the books, admittedly a while ago now, I got the impression that Taim wasn't anyone other than Taim: one of the most intriguing characters in the WoT (second only to Verin, for me).

I do get the feeling that he could be a present day Forsaken, though; a new member in the Dark's ranks, trained up by one of the older members (possibly Ishamael?) That might explain the "So-called Aiel" comments, too.

Regarding Asmodean: As I said, it's been a while since the last time I read the books, but I think I remember the Dark One saying that Asmodean wouldn't be coming back. If he was back as Taim, then surely the Dark One would have told the other Forsaken at their meeting?

Reading this thread has made me realise just how much I keep forgetting about the storylines, and how I need to reread (or at least get a summary of) the books before I read The Gathering Storm.:eek:
 
This will be my 4th time re reading the series. everytime a new book comes out i tend to do that. I started reading in 2000-2001 I think. I only read up to the last book knife of dreams. But I seem to remember when rand had clensed sadin that we were shown that Taim was Demandread.
 
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