Eragon

Many of the now bigger publishers or the smaller ones swallowed up by the big ones started out with editors who published what they loved rather than what they expected to be the next bestseller.

So true, Melainie. So true. I've seen the change firsthand. I've also seen the vanishing act of the advance as a result of print-on-demand tech. I'll take an editor with a PHD, major, or just a sincere interest in literature, over a marketing exec who wants to hound-dog the popular/safe trends. Heck, aren't we warned/advised against cliche storylines, from agents and editors? Are we not expected to "reach" and take chances with stories? Ask Vater, she'll tell you that, in her opinion, unique, fresh, layered, outside the box sells. Yet, we are seeing knockoffs. So what is it? Confusing, wot?

Tri
 
No I think you like me. That or we have a similar taste in stuff. Your a lot like an old friend of mine who moved to Byron Bay. We had exactly the same taste in books and movies.
 
Heya guys.
Feordel's gonna give his opinion now :)

In my opinion, Eragon and Eldest were both very good. Im 15 now and so reading it the age that he began it, which means I'm probably reading it with similar eyes. I think a lot of fantasy books have similar to ideas to the great epics like Lord of The Rings, Star Wars and what have you. However, the story makes itself really. The plot is his own and the story is his own and just because there are some similarities does not mean that he copied it, as someone else already said the great ideas can get stuck around in your subconscious.

While a lot of people on the forum have heard about the book before reading, or learned about CP before reading it, I just bought it randomly from a shop. This meant I did not know how young CP was or the means of the books publication which means I read it without prejudice. A lot of people have read it already annoyed that someone younger than them or someone who in their view is inexperienced has written a book which I think affects how you read. If you hear bad press, it's going to have a small inclination on you're own view.

By not reading about it beforehand, I only have my own opinions on the book. I think that both of the books out now are very good and show potential, despite the deriviative nature which he has admitted to. The story does show morals, especially in Eldest where a great theme is perseverance, where Eragon must keep fighting despite his horrific scar on his back which causes him great agony.

Yes there are cliches, but I personally don't tend to notice these, as I spend my time enjoying the story rather than looking at literary techniques.

You could critisize any book on the market, but I think the amount of critisicm Paolini has faced is quite unfair. People gave him bad press because his parents owned a publishing company, but the man from knopf obviously thought it was good enough to publish and it has been the major publishing companies involved that have created the most publicity, Paolini just went round schools.

A lot of people are jealous as things seem to have come easy for him. But if you want to write a book, go ahead and do it, and stop wasting valuable writing time critisizing someone's else's easier path to publication. Go ahead, write, and get up there with him!

Another thing I realy disagree with is Anti-Shurtugal.com/ I actually think the website is quite pathetic due to its harsh criticisms. Yes there are similarities between Eragon and other books, but you'll always be able to find traces of other books in a book whatever the story. They say he has directly copied ideas which is wrong as he did not write The Lord of The Rings, he wrote Eragon. Characters, names and other things may be the same, but the plot is not. The plot is enjoyable to some people and maybe not others, but just because the creator of Antishurtugal feels Paolini got the easy road (which is true) doesn't mean he should waste his time complaining about it as I said above!

Overall, I think Paolini tells a good story and it is obvious that he receieved some inspiration from other fantasy and science fiction epics, but who hasn't?

That is all.

Feordel.
 
people aren't jealous because it came easty for him. people are annoying because they dont' think he deserves what he has because his book i s so cliche and so like other books. the anti shergal site shows the flaws really well, i thought. they point it out, they discuss where and why the book is ridiculous or just doesn't work or make sense, and they are valid points in my mind. and there is a difference between being inspired, and being able to see outright where someone got an idea from. the fact that SO many people can say, well this is JUST like that, is a worry. you don't get that with many other writers, the only one i can think of is terry brooks, where people say he just rewrote lord of the rings. but a lot of people say this about this kid and can give very accurate similiartiies between his work and the way they say he copied or 'borrowed' from. the fact that so many people can see that to the extent that they can makes it different from just being inspired.

and unfortnatly, being published doesn't mean you're good. it just means you're commerical. there are a lot of books out there that are pretty bad, that are published cos they can sell. hell there was even an article abiut a girl who got a publishing contract and her book was completely plagorised! it was about the fact she was young, and they could use that to market her book, that got her the deal. not the work itself. cos publishers want what sells.

i agree people should go out there and write and go for publishing if that's what they want. but you can do that AND critisce someone else's wrok. *shrug* and that's what reading is about. discussing what oyu liked and didn't about someone else's work. i don't think a writer can actually grow as a writer if they can't see or discuss someone else's work, cos how can you improve in yourself if you can't see the flaws in someone else? you'll just make the same mistakes.
 
I blogged about this some time ago. Let me make this clear, I blame the industry more than I do the authors in this case. But what can I do about it? Absolutely nothing.


Publishing Fraud.
Monday, May 7, 2007


We have to go no futher than the three examples below to understand how single-minded and obscene the publishing industry can get, when all it has in its sights is gimmickry, fraud, hype and greed. These cases represent but a small fraction of what is taking place in the industry today. It's irrefutable evidence that where there is no talent or celebrity status, you have only to create it, label it, ship it and cram it down the (unsuspecting) gullible throat of the populace. Though these incidents took place some time ago, they will forever remain fresh and seared upon my mind as if by a branding iron. I will never get over the negative impact they have had upon my own career.

Sweet, marketable, young, beautiful and born out of a foreign heritage, Kaavya Viswanthan burst on the scene as a teen queen of chic lit, with How Opal Got Kissed, Got Wild, and Got a Life. Alloy Entertainment figured they could package this girl (I said girl--not book), and sell her to Little Brown for a hefty $500,000 advance. The advance was all BS by the way--it was much smaller. Film rights went instantly to Dreamworks (those farking fools), who bought the film rights for a book that wasn't even out yet. The conclusion found was that the book was a fraud, plagerized to the hilt, almost line by line in dozens of passages, including the plot and theme. I resent the fact that an 18-year-old girl nearly got millions for a book (or two) that was her VERY FIRST attempt at writing genre fiction. She paid no dues, suffered no rejections, and certainly had not honed her craft to deserve such accolades.

James Frey's A Million Little Pieces was also found to be hype, lies and exageration. He fooled the NYTs bestseller list for 44 weeks, and Oprah Winfrey, when she made it a # 1 book club selection. Proof once again that sensationalism sells--the more outrageous, the better. Sorry. It just ended up too good to be true for its own damn good. They canceled production and pulled it from the racks. Strangely enough, Frey has gone on to sign more contracts with different publishers and has landed on the bestseller list once again. I'll be damned. If you lie and cause great controversy--you can obtain one hell of a writing vocation and end up an A-list celebrity. That's how it's done.

Christopher Paolini's Eragon is another such hunk of hack squat--totally derived, unoriginal, borrowed, and pitfully boring. They sold the "kid" Christopher, hoping that America would embrace this child prodigy and, unfortunately, the entire world took the bait. Christopher's parents actually were instrumental in setting up the massive publicity platform for this book, alas taking a great burden off the marketing department. Recent estimates are that the book has sold about 8 million copies. This kid has nothing on Terry Brooks, or for that matter, any one of the very capable epic fantasy writers in my Absolutewrite writer's group.

I'm nearly at the point where I don't trust BIG publishing anymore. I think their marketing departments (the bean-counters) ought to relinquish custody of talent and purchasing power right back to where it used to be--with the editors.
Rant over...for now.
 
i don't trust the big publishing houses much. it's kinda why i rarely buy new books. it's why i sent mine to small print places too. tho i know they want money and commerical stuff as much as anyone else, i feel that they're more likely to take a chance to something they think is good, that they also think can sell. than just go for what can sell.

sigh
 
Im 15 now and so reading it the age that he began it, which means I'm probably reading it with similar eyes.
I was 15 when I read them and thought that the stuff was sh*t and only a little similar to how a 15 year old thinks, but then again I think that about most books written from the point of view of someone my age.

I think a lot of fantasy books have similar to ideas to the great epics like Lord of The Rings, Star Wars and what have you. However, the story makes itself really. The plot is his own and the story is his own and just because there are some similarities does not mean that he copied it, as someone else already said the great ideas can get stuck around in your subconscious.
Some similarities? Come on you have read them right? I do admit the plot is good but very similar to Star Wars and as much as I love Star Wars I admit its plot is a bit weak. Luke = Eragon, Obi Wan = that old mentor guy who dies who I can't remember the name of because of a mental blank, Murtag = Han Solo, Arya = Leia. Come on you have to see that!

While a lot of people on the forum have heard about the book before reading, or learned about CP before reading it, I just bought it randomly from a shop. This meant I did not know how young CP was or the means of the books publication which means I read it without prejudice. A lot of people have read it already annoyed that someone younger than them or someone who in their view is inexperienced has written a book which I think affects how you read. If you hear bad press, it's going to have a small inclination on you're own view.
I read it without prejudice as well cause it had recently come out and my sister works in a bookshop and I wanted to buy a book and she said try this one you might like it. She had no idea either.

and show potential
Yes and thats all it shows.

Yes there are cliches, but I personally don't tend to notice these, as I spend my time enjoying the story rather than looking at literary techniques.
Don't read it a second time then, they are even more noticeable.

You could critisize any book on the market, but I think the amount of critisicm Paolini has faced is quite unfair. People gave him bad press because his parents owned a publishing company, but the man from knopf obviously thought it was good enough to publish and it has been the major publishing companies involved that have created the most publicity, Paolini just went round schools.
Here is where I pull out info. The Knopf people were looking for a fantasy story, similar to Lord Of The Rings, to come out around the same time Return Of The King came out in cinemas. Clever marketing ploy. They called him a child Tolkien. People snapped it up.

A lot of people are jealous as things seem to have come easy for him. But if you want to write a book, go ahead and do it, and stop wasting valuable writing time critisizing someone's else's easier path to publication. Go ahead, write, and get up there with him!
I have and am in the process of editing.
 
Here is where I pull out info. The Knopf people were looking for a fantasy story, similar to Lord Of The Rings, to come out around the same time Return Of The King came out in cinemas. Clever marketing ploy. They called him a child Tolkien. People snapped it up.

Exactly, and I think that was my point. I remember the comparisons to Tolkien, and even a reference in an article that stated "child prodigy." Just about every interview on the kid was reflected away from the meat and bones of the book/plot, to showcase a youthful human interest story--miracle boy pens grand fantasy epic--not your typical young man--boy genius--the nerd with the Mitus touch.

I'm really happy for this kid in the sense that he pursused his dreams and had the dicipline to write what he loves. Hell, everyone of us have done that when we were kids or teeners. I think that he is going to go very far, with some more spit and shine, life experience, and a whole lot more reading in his inventory. He will eventually find his own voice, IF he cares to improve, and most likely write something very original that garners true accolades and fame.

My beef is with the publicity machine that thrust the boy upon us, even prior to the launch of the book, spending hundreds of thousands on promotion and hype. My beef is with the editor/editors and publisher, who must have known this was a clone/knockoff, and allowed it to pass through the system nevertheless.

In the past three years I have garnered over 145 rejections, a lot of agented submissions, and only the large houses, such as the one Paolini ended up with, were the one's that constantly rejected the books on the basis of the premise alone. Having gone out of my way to make my books extraordinarily uniquie and fresh, I kept getting the same comments (And I write SF and Fantasy).

This is too derivitive
He did not push the genre
This is not unique enough to compete in this genre field.
Rather cliche
This seemed too familiar and did not break any new ground.
I've seen this before in several variations.
You've really got to have something new to breakout.

(Gee, guess where one of these comments came from).

What's surprising is that I sold three of those books last year to small and medium houses, with no complaints at all from the reader/editors.

There's a common theme that runs through all the agent's blogs out there--and it is, if you don't have something fresh, uniquie--that great pitch/hook with a stunning premise, your toast. You need to shine above the stack and stand out. Agents and publishers are looking for that breakout book, the one that has the "wow" factor.

The acceptance of Eragon goes against everything that I've been taught over my 27-year writing career. And you know, I don't believe it's the editors and publisher so much as it is the marketing departments, who wield entirely too much power when it comes down to what goes to print and what does not. Give us, the writers what we want--a fair and balanced chance to prove ouselves. Give the readers what they want--not what you think they should have.

Fortunately, the majority of the large publishers have maintained their integrity. I just wish these publicity hounds and ambulance chasers would knock it off and get back to finding those real gems in the stack.

Tri



Tri
 
This is too derivitive
He did not push the genre
This is not unique enough to compete in this genre field.
Rather cliche
This seemed too familiar and did not break any new ground.
I've seen this before in several variations.
You've really got to have something new to breakout.

(Gee, guess where one of these comments came from).
I think with those you have said what many of us have tried to. I can't guess though.
 

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