"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

[darkpowers]

What's the form on quoting song lyrics in a manuscript?

I have a car chase scene where the pursued character has music on his car audio system, and a particular line from a Nirvana song is an apt illustration of his state of mind at the time.

Is it acceptable to quote the relevant line from the song concerned, provided I acknowledge the source?

 

[Scarfy]

What's the form on quoting song lyrics in a manuscript?

I think that that is something that the publisher would eventually worry about - obtaining permissions, etc. So, for the moment, I'd say don't let it worry you and just concentrate on finishing the novel.

 

[Tirellan]

Getting permission for quoting lyrics is fraught with immense difficulties with the copyright holders often asking for absurd sums. Don't go there.

 

[mygoditsraining]

Article Archive of Just About Write

 

[Ursa major]

Thanks for that, MGIR.

I can only assume that in the example quoted, the offending lyric exerpt was identified as such in the book; I can't believe that Aretha Franklin owns the offending phrase, it must have been used before then (if only by Otis Reading?).


I have been known to include (in unpublished, textual work, so lawyers need not reach for their writs), skits on short** excerpts from lyrics - including the odd section of, say, "da-da-di-da" - but have not identified the song or used any of the song's actual words. (In effect I am suggesting - but no more - a rhythm and letting the reader guess at the tune.) I wonder if this crosses some legal line or other.


** - Only one or perhaps two phrases, but as long, or longer, than the Franklin quote.

 

[darkpowers]

Thanks for the replies. I shall err on the side of caution and refer to the song rather than quoting the actual lyrcs.

 

[Montero]

I seem to remember a character in Kil'n People by David Brin bouncing off the walls and singing Meatloaf's Life is a Lemon and I want my money back, but it is referenced rather than quoted, which goes with the above. (Great scene, must put that book on my re-read pile.)

 

[John Jarrold]

Here we are again! Right, after delays - caused for a Good Reason, lots of work - I WILL now be here once a day, checking posts between 9 and 10 most mornings. Apologies for being away so long...

 

[FionaW]

I was wondering whether you'd be coming back! You should be more careful - I seem to recall a time, on your old forum, when there was a...umm...small party in your absence. Fortunately e-parties don't leave overflowing ashtrays and heaps of crumpled beer cans, though there was that bloke no one recognised, the one we found asleep under one of the older threads the next morning...

 

[ctg]

No need to apologise John. You had to do, what you had to do and that's end of the matter. Although I'm afraid this is going to be a brief visit. So couple of questions, just in case you'll disappear again.

1. Is it still true that the publishers want 99.999% ready debut's before they write a contract?
2. What publishers are looking for year 2010?
3. Is there any trend in the genre that the publishers now prefer over the others? Like for example the Road (written painstakingly for the mainstream audience).

 

[Gary Compton]

Here we are again! Right, after delays - caused for a Good Reason, lots of work - I WILL now be here once a day, checking posts between 9 and 10 most mornings. Apologies for being away so long...

I'd thought you'd done some sort of scam with a canoe, a wife and 250 grand.

It must of been a relative or someone who looks like you

 

[John Jarrold]

No need to apologise John. You had to do, what you had to do and that's end of the matter. Although I'm afraid this is going to be a brief visit. So couple of questions, just in case you'll disappear again.

1. Is it still true that the publishers want 99.999% ready debut's before they write a contract?
2. What publishers are looking for year 2010?
3. Is there any trend in the genre that the publishers now prefer over the others? Like for example the Road (written painstakingly for the mainstream audience).

It's always best to finish and fully edit a book before presenting it to publishers or agents.

There is nothing specific that publishers are looking for, it simply isn't that cut and dried - which is why editors usually reply to the question: What are you looking for? by saying: I'll know it when I see it. Market research is good, look carefully at books by recently-successful writers in your genre in local bookshops. BUT be aware that for every vampire-based urban fantasy or space-based SF novel you see, hundreds in the same area are turned down, because the prose, characeterisation and other basics aren't good enough, or they don't float specific editors' boats. It's a subjective business. And the answer to point 3 is the same. They know what they're looking for when they see it. No hard-and-fast parameters. But no one is looking for straightforward humorous fantasy.

 

[John Jarrold]

I'd thought you'd done some sort of scam with a canoe, a wife and 250 grand.

It must of been a relative or someone who looks like you

Never mind the canoe or the wife, just give me 250k!

 

[ctg]

It's always best to finish and fully edit a book before presenting it to publishers or agents.

Of course, but what I meant was that you earlier this year said that the publishers are looking for ready-to-be-published books rather than the ones that are polished to shine, but might have still be a bit rough in places.

 

[FionaW]

If someone writes in two distinct, non-overlapping genres, say SFF and literary fiction (and assuming the writing in both was of a publishable standard), would you 'share' a writer with another agent? I am assuming here that each agent would know about the writer's contractual commitments to the other, and that the writer wouldn't be foolish enough to take on more obligations that they could fulfil.

I'm curious because, listening to a number of podcasts I'm coming to realise that there are a number of writers out there who cover several genres. Some simply epublish their other books (Sigler's The Rookie being a good example of this), but others seem to be formally published in several genres. (I suppose Iain Banks is the obvious example.)

 

[John Jarrold]

Nine times out of ten I'd say establish yourself FULLY in one genre - that means five or six books published and selling well - before thinking about anything else. Publishers do not, as a rule, like authors who write in more than one genre. Some agents deal with all areas of the market, of course. Iain Banks is a one-off, and it's important to look at the market as a whole, not just say 'Oh, it works for THAT writer, so I can do it'. It's even difficult to get the book trade to take an SF author who switches to Fantasy seriously, let alone someone writing SF and lit-fic. Yes, I know Richard Morgan is presently writing Fantasy! Look at the genre as a whole.

Personally, I want to deal with SF or Fantasy novelists who are determined to write within their genre and produce at least one commercial novel a year.

 

[John Jarrold]

Of course, but what I meant was that you earlier this year said that the publishers are looking for ready-to-be-published books rather than the ones that are polished to shine, but might have still be a bit rough in places.

The more polished, the better.

 

[J-WO]

Something I've always been curious about- is there a 'One strike and your out policy' to debut novelists, generally speaking?

What I mean is, if you had a two book deal, say, and you delivered them on time and your publishers liked them but they bombed with the public and you got dropped, would that be a black mark in the industry's eyes?
Or would another publishing house see all that experience as a positive?

 

[Urien]

Hi John,

Welcome back. What's the appropriate length of a synopsis for a novel? I've read somewhat contradictory information; the bulk of it seems to be towards 1-3 pages. Thanks for your advice.

 

[John Jarrold]

Something I've always been curious about- is there a 'One strike and your out policy' to debut novelists, generally speaking?

What I mean is, if you had a two book deal, say, and you delivered them on time and your publishers liked them but they bombed with the public and you got dropped, would that be a black mark in the industry's eyes?
Or would another publishing house see all that experience as a positive?

That is definitely a problem. It doesn't necesarily mean your career is over, but look at it this way: If W H Smiths have seen two or three books by an author that have been well published fail to catch the public's imagination, why would they take a chance on another book, just because it came from a different publisher? They are a commercial business, so they need a number of good reasons to do so - which can be any number of things, such as greater enthusiasm, MUCH better covers, a large marketing spend and a move to a diferent area...but the majority of times, when the public has spoken by not opening their wallets it's difficult to get the book chains to take the author on in the future. Publishers know that, so they are exceedingly careful about offering a deal to an author in that situation. And this is far more the case than it was twenty years ago. However, I repeat what I always say: there are no absolute templates. It does happen.