The Chronicles Network Hall of Fame - Discussion Thread

[Trey Greyjoy]

Someone, at some time, should throw some votes at Watership Down.

 

[Culhwch]

Updated the list again. A few changes. The series list is in the works - taking some time due to my total lack of knowledge of most of these books. Research is being undertaken, and I will endeavour to post it by the weekend.

 

[Carolyn Hill]

In thinking about the earlier discussion of older versus newer SF titles on people's lists, I realized that older titles have an advantage over newer titles because books from long ago have the advantage of having been a person's favorites for a longer time than newer books.

I also wonder about how a person's age, or number of years reading SFF, or number of SFF books read affects a person's list and a book's ranking in that list. My tastes have changed over the years. (I'm not saying that my tastes have improved; I'm just saying that they're different than when I was younger.) If a book was a favorite of mine three decades ago and is still a favorite when I reread it today, that book definitely belongs on my list, because it's managed to continue to speak to me despite my changing tastes. Le Guin's Left Hand of Darkness is my most favorite because it fits this criterion.

But I must admit that I placed Bradley's Mists of Avalon and Crowley's Aegypt on my list because of the overwhelming impact they had on me when I was younger--not necessarily because they speak as strongly to "me-as-I-am" today. In fact, I haven't reread either of them in the past twenty years, so I have no idea if they are more favorite than books I've read recently.

Did any of the rest of you grapple with this sort of thing when you were making your lists?

(This post is probably just a long-winded way of saying that I wish I had included James Alan Gardner's Expendable on my list.)

 

[Culhwch]

(This post is probably just a long-winded way of saying that I wish I had included James Alan Gardner's Expendable on my list.)

Sorry, no refunds.

Yeah, I am (relatively) young at twenty-five, but I understand exactly where you are coming from. There was a time when my list might have featured, god, Raymond Feist and other such hacks [note to Feist fans: tongue firmly in cheek, please don't flame me], but my tastes have changed in the last five to ten years. For me, the books that have really stayed with me are Cornwell's The Winter King and Gaiman's Stardust. It will be interesting to see whether or not that has changed in another ten years.

 

[GOLLUM]

Did any of the rest of you grapple with this sort of thing when you were making your lists?

I thought about the issue but it didn't really affect my choice, maybe because I've only been reading this Genre in earnest for the past 20 odd years, so early reads are still fairly fresh in my memory. I just went with what I liked or enjoyed the most rather than the books that perhaps had the most profond effect upon me. Having said that, being someone who has a burning desire to read as much and as widely within the fanatsy Genre as he can manage in one lifetime, I've spent quite a bit of my time investigating older texts as well as the more modern writers in an attempt to have a solid footing in both the present and the past as it were.

It's true that tastes do change as the literary pallette matures but the books I read in the past and really enjoyed still stand up to my scrutiny today ala Donladson's Thomas Covenant Chronicles or Silverberg's early Majipoor books, although there may be a tinge of nostalgia in there somewhere. Perhaps not unsusprisingly, books I considered classics back then and so-called classics of previous eras still compare favourably to what I consider to be modern classics. I suspect because the essential criteria I use to "judge" a book has not really changed in all that time.

 

[iansales]

I've often found the opposite is true. Asimov's foundation trilogy is considered a classic of the genre, and I remember being impressed by the books when reading them as a kid. But I reread them recently... and oh dear. My taste has certainly changed as they years have passed, and I consider myself a more discerning reader... The Foundation trilogy did not stack up well against what I expect from the fiction I read now, genre or otherwise. I also spotted a number of malapropisms, which surprised me.

 

[GOLLUM]

I've often found the opposite is true. Asimov's foundation trilogy is considered a classic of the genre, and I remember being impressed by the books when reading them as a kid. But I reread them recently... and oh dear. My taste has certainly changed as they years have passed, and I consider myself a more discerning reader... The Foundation trilogy did not stack up well against what I expect from the fiction I read now, genre or otherwise. I also spotted a number of malapropisms, which surprised me.

Perhaps I was just too precocious for my own good...

 

[Snowdog]

Just a few thoughts on why the list is so skewed towards fantasy, and recent fantasy in particular, and why there is little recent SF.

Firstly, the majority of internet users are young people. This site bucks the trend a bit but I'm still willing the bet that most people here are under 30. Since SFF publishing has been heavily weighted towards fantasy for a good number of years, most here will have grown up just reading fantasy and the younger they are, the greater the chance that all they've read are the more recent books/authors.

Older people like me grew up with a more balanced bookshelf, with SF slightly dominant. The reason I think that recent SF isn't represented is because there just isn't much available to a lot of people. Go into any Smiths and there'll be hardly any SF on the shelf.

That's why I wanted two lists, one for SF and one for fantasy, so that the fantasy readers could maybe get a better idea of what SF had to offer.

On another note, where does Shadow Of The Wind fit into SF or fantasy? I suppose you could call it historical in that it's set just after WW2, but that's all. That's not a criticism of the book, just questioning whether it should be in a list of SFF books.

 

[GOLLUM]

Things are going to get interesting Cullwch with all the new members we now have.

Will be interesting to see how many more respondents come through.

 

[Culhwch]

I've been somewhat slack regarding this little project of mine, but I'll try and reverse that. I've finally posted the Hall of Fame Series list. With luck it might kick off some renewed interest...

 

[dwndrgn]

Re: The Chronicles Network Hall of Fame

Great job on collecting and tabulizing all that info! I see from the list I'll have to add a few books to my to read list...


*I'm impressed Silverlock made the list. I read it years and years ago and really liked it. I may have to try and find another copy now.

 

[SpaceShip]

... and JRR didn't get a look in! I'm surprised!

And how on earth can one find out whether most people on this site are under 30? Perhaps the administrator could look us all up and advise?

 

[kcs_hiker]

bumping this back to the top with a few comments

- George RR Martin and Erik whatshisname and their epic series didn't make my list... I haven't read them.... , so I have no horse in THAT race.
- I have the first three Martin books. They are on my list.
- Science Fiction vs. Fantasy is an age old argument. I cut my teeth on Heinlein, Norton, McCaffrey, Silverberg, Clarke and Asimov. I didn't read any fantasy til I read the Hobbit and LotR in college.
- Older science fiction vs. newer SF? I listed my favorites, those books that I have read many times. Heinlein, Herbert, Williamson. I also like Robert Sawyer, John Varley and Elizabeth Moon, but its hard to pick a Moon book over a Heinlein book when I only had 10 slots.

 

[Connavar]

Hehe i see your point kcs about older SF vs new SF.

I wouldnt pick the newer ones i have read over Heinlien,Asimov etc.

The only "modern" SF writer i have read that are in that league in my eyes is Douglas Adams.

I also like you prefer SF way way before Fantasy but a certain dude called David Gemmell dominated my top ten

 

[MontyCircus]

I've done some tabulation on the Hall of Fame voting. I took the liberty of combining votes for individual books into series votes. This is a bit problematic since some people listed 3, 4 or 5 books in a series in their list, which serves to inflate the series numbers. It was also difficult in some cases because a book would be part of a trilogy, which is part of a cycle, which is part of a series, which is part of a universe. Where to draw the line in these cases? I don't know. I just did the best I could.

I tried to split them up into genres, but as I'm not familiar with most of these books I'm sure I've made some mistakes. Some of them seem not to be either fantasy, sci-fi, or horror; either "normal" novels or historical fiction, so I'm listing them separately.

Anyway, please let me know if I've made some miscategorizations!

Also, instead of adding up points, I simply added up how many times a book was voted for (in parentheses).

==============
Top 25 - All Genres
==============
1.) A Song of Ice and Fire (Series) - George R.R. Martin (27)
2.) Lord of the Rings (Series?) - J.R.R. Tolkien (26)
3.) Malazan Book of the Fallen (Series) - Steven Erikson (15)
4.) Dune (Series) - Frank Herbert (14)
5.) Chronicles of Narnia (Series) - C.S. Lewis (9)
Gormenghast Trilogy (Series) - Mervyn Peake (9)
His Dark Materials Trilogy (Series) - Philip Pullman (9)
8.) Drenai Tales (Series) - David Gemmell (8)
Foundation Trilogy (Series) - Isaac Asimov (8)
Riftwar Saga (Series) - Raymond E. Feist (8)
Discworld (Series) - Terry Pratchett (8)
12.) The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Series) - Douglas Adams (6)
Cthulhu Mythos (Series) - H.P. Lovecraft (6)
Memory, Sorrow and Thorn (Series) - Tad Williams (6)
15.) Silmarillion - J.R.R. Tolkien (5)
Avalon (Series) - Marion Zimmer Bradley (5)
Good Omens - Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett (5)
Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (Series) - Stephen Donaldson (5)
Sprawl Trilogy (Series) William Gibson (5)
20.) Stars, My Destination - Alfred Bester (4)
Belgariad (Series) - David Eddings (4)
Stones of Power (Series) - David Gemmell (4)
Book of the New Sun (Series) - Gene Wolfe (4)
Fevre Dream - George R.R. Martin (4)
Tigana - Guy Gavriel Kaye (4)
Harry Potter (Series) - J.K. Rowling (4)
Forever War - Joe Haldeman (4)
Sirens of Titan - Kurt Vonnegut (4)
Night's Dawn Trilogy (Series) - Peter F. Hamilton (4)
Liveship Traders Trilogy (Series) - Robin Hobb (4)
Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin (4)
Earthsea Cycle (Series) - Ursula K. LeGuin (4)


=============
Top 25 - Fantasy
=============
1.) A Song of Ice and Fire (Series) - George R.R. Martin (27)
2.) Lord of the Rings (Series?) - J.R.R. Tolkien (26)
3.) Malazan Book of the Fallen (Series) - Steven Erikson (15)
4.) Chronicles of Narnia (Series) - C.S. Lewis (9)
Gormenghast Trilogy (Series) - Mervyn Peake (9)
His Dark Materials Trilogy (Series) - Philip Pullman (9)
7.) Drenai Tales (Series) - David Gemmell (8)
Riftwar Saga (Series) - Raymond E. Feist (8)
Discworld (Series) - Terry Pratchett (8)
10.) Memory, Sorrow and Thorn (Series) - Tad Williams (6)
11.) Silmarillion - J.R.R. Tolkien (5)
Avalon (Series) - Marion Zimmer Bradley (5)
Good Omens - Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett (5)
Chronicles of Thomas Covenant (Series) - Stephen Donaldson (5)
15.) Belgariad (Series) - David Eddings (4)
Stones of Power (Series) - David Gemmell (4)
Tigana - Guy Gavriel Kaye (4)
Harry Potter (Series) - J.K. Rowling (4)
Liveship Traders Trilogy (Series) - Robin Hobb (4)
Earthsea Cycle (Series) - Ursula K. LeGuin (4)
21.) Dragonriders of Pern (Series) - Anne McCaffrey (3)
Abhorsen Trilogy (Series) - Garth Nix (3)
Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien (3)
Crown of Stars (Series) - Kate Elliot (3)
Dragonlance Chronicles Trilogy (Series) - Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman (3)
Velgarth (Series) - Mercedes Lackey (3)
Prince of Nothing Trilogy (Series) - R. Scott Bakker (3)
Wheel of Time (Series) - Robert Jordan (3)
Farseer Trilogy (Series) - Robin Hobb (3)
Amber Chronicles (Series) - Roger Zelazny (3)
Shannara Trilogy (Series) - Terry Brooks (3)


==================
Top 25 - Science Fiction
==================
1.) Dune (Series) - Frank Herbert (14)
2.) Foundation Trilogy (Series) - Isaac Asimov (8)
3.) The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Series) - Douglas Adams (6)
4.) Sprawl Trilogy (Series) William Gibson (5)
5.) Stars, My Destination - Alfred Bester (4)
Book of the New Sun (Series) - Gene Wolfe (4)
Forever War - Joe Haldeman (4)
Sirens of Titan - Kurt Vonnegut (4)
Night's Dawn Trilogy (Series) - Peter F. Hamilton (4)
Left Hand of Darkness - Ursula K. LeGuin (4)
11.) Day of the Triffids - John Wyndham (3)
Enders Game (Series) - Orson Scott Card (3)
Lord of Light - Roger Zelazny (3)
14.) Chasm City - Al Reynolds (2)
Rendezvous with Rama - Arthur C. Clarke (2)
Perdido Street Station - China Mieville (2)
Hyperion Cantos (Series) - Dan Simmons (2)
Flowers for Algernon - Daniel Keyes (2)
1984 - George Orwell (2)
Time Machine - H.G. Wells (2)
War of the Worlds - H.G. Wells (2)
Use of Weapons - Iain Banks (2)
Snow Queen - Joan D. Vinge (2)
Galactic Milieu (Series) - Julian May (2)
Never Let Me Go - Kazuo Ishiguro
Mars Trilogy (Series) - Kim Stanley Robinson (2)
Battlefield Earth - L. Ron Hubbard (2)
Ringworld (Series) - Larry Niven (2)
Vorkosigan Saga (Series) - Lois McMaster Bujold (2)
Kairos (Series) - Madeleine L'Engle (2)
Illustrated Man - Ray Bradbury (2)
Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (2)
Illuminatus Trilogy (Series) - Robert Anton Wilson & Robert Shea (2)
Dhalgren - Samuel R. Delany (2)


===========
Top 5 - Horror
===========
1.) Cthulhu Mythos (Series) - H.P. Lovecraft (6)
2.) Fevre Dream - George R.R. Martin (4)
3.) Vampire Chronicles (Series) - Anne Rice (3)
4.) Dream Cycle (Series) - H.P. Lovecraft (2)
Stand - Stephen King (2)


====================
Top 7 - Other/Historical Fiction/Unclassified
====================
1.) Warlord Chronicles (Series) - Bernard Cornwell (3)
Shadow of the Wind - Carlos Ruis Zafon (3)
Gates of Fire - Steven Pressfield (3)
4.) Count of Monte Cristo - Alexander Dumas (2)
One Hundred Years of Solitude - Gabriel Garcia Marquez (2)
Invisible Cities - Italo Calvino (2)
Aegypt - John Crowley (2)

 

[Pyan]

Interesting, monty...

Just one thing: you're right to put (series?) after Lord of the Rings: it's not a trilogy or series, it's one long book split into three parts for publication convenience.

I'd also move Anne McCaffrey to SF from Fantasy, but that's a personal thing, and subject to much debate.

But a good job....you must have waaaay too much spare time!

 

[MontyCircus]

Interesting, monty...

Just one thing: you're right to put (series?) after Lord of the Rings: it's not a trilogy or series, it's one long book split into three parts for publication convenience.

I'd also move Anne McCaffrey to SF from Fantasy, but that's a personal thing, and subject to much debate.

But a good job....you must have waaaay too much spare time!

hehe, well it's something I've wanted to do since I came here.

I haven't read McCaffrey, but I figured dragons sounds like fantasy to me! Some people listed Fellowship or Two Towers, thinking they couldn't vote for the whole thing...so there's obviously some confusion over how to classify it exactly.

Thanks for taking a look at it Pyan

 

[Pyan]

so there's obviously some confusion over how to classify it exactly.

Well, JRRT said it was one long book - you don't get better authority than that!

I haven't read McCaffrey, but I figured dragons sounds like fantasy to me!

Not these ones....bred using advanced genetic techniques from indigenous flying lizards.

 

[MontyCircus]

Well, JRRT said it was one long book - you don't get better authority than that!

And I suppose if he said they are 3 separate books...then they would be 3 separate books? If Martin said Song of Ice and Fire isn't a series, it's one long book...

Just devil's advocating it . Really I just put the series marks in because some people hate reading series', and because I did lump in votes in some cases which inflated them artificially. So essentially it's as if some people voted:

1.) Lord of the Rings
2.) Song of Ice and Fire
3.) Foundation
4.) Song of Ice and Fire
5.) Song of Ice and Fire
6.) Song of Ice and Fire

...which is a problem...

Not these ones....bred using advanced genetic techniques from indigenous flying lizards.

Indigenous flying lizards? Well in any event...

I got bored again. Here's some more author lists:

==============================
Top 20 - Authors (# of works voted for)
==============================
1.) Michael Moorcock (6)
Robert A. Heinlein (6)
3.) David Gemmell (5)
Iain Banks (5)
Stephen King (5)
6.) Isaac Asimov (4)
Marion Zimmer Bradley (4)
Neil Gaiman (4)
Philip K. Dick (4)
Piers Anthony (4)
Roger Zelazny (4)
Tad Williams (4)
13.) Anne McCaffrey (3)
Greg Bear (3)
J.R.R. Tolkien (3)
Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman (3)
Raymond E. Feist (3)
Robin Hobb (3)
Samuel R. Delaney (3)
Larry Niven (3)


===========================
Top 25 - Authors (Total # of votes)
===========================
1.) J.R.R. Tolkien (34)
2.) George R.R. Martin (31)
3.) David Gemmell (17)
4.) Steven Erikson (15)
5.) Frank Herbert (14)
6.) Terry Pratchett (13)
7.) Raymond E. Feist (12)
8.) Isaac Asimov (11)
9.) Neil Gaiman (10)
10.) C.S. Lewis (9)
Mervyn Peake (9)
Philip Pullman (9)
Tad Williams (9)
14.) H.P. Lovecraft (8)
Marion Zimmer Bradley (8)
Robin Hobb (8)
Roger Zelazny (8)
Ursula K. LeGuin (8)
19.) Michael Moorcock (7)
Robert A. Heinlein (7)
21.) Douglas Adams (6)
Iain Banks (6)
Stephen Donaldson (6)
Stephen King (6)
25.) David Niven (5)
Anne McCaffrey (5)
Guy Gavriel Kaye (5)
Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman (5)
Piers Anthony (5)
William Gibson (5)