the difference between coincedence and fate

[asher marquering]

what is truly the difference between coincedence and fate?
is it merely the belief that fate has reason behind it? assuming that life itself accually has meaning and reason.
and us as humans can we trully comprehend wat reason is?
can an event be past off as coincedence when it is fate and we do not understand the meaning also can an event be placed in the fate category when in actual fact it is mere coincedence?

just wondering
wat u guys think?

 

[Aes]

The difference is that coincidence could mean occupying the same location in space. Fate, on the other hand, could mean an end--for better or worse.

Okay, so those aren't the definitions you mean. Personally, I don't believe in either, because I find it much more appealing to have your destiny in your own hands.

 

[BookStop]

Fate, or destiny, is an inevitable outcome that has been predetermined, whether or not we understand or anticipate that outcome.

Coincidence is an accidental occurance or turn of events, often remarkable and never predetermined.

 

[mosaix]

Coincidence: a chance occurence of apparently connected events.

Fate: No such thing.

 

[Paradox 99]

I believe in fate, but not in the traditional sense. I don't believe there's a divine being determining our every action; instead I believe in the inevitable outcome of physical laws.
I'm a determinist, so I believe that if we had enough information (like everything down to the path of every last sub atomic particle!) we could predict how everything would turn out (and I'm no fan of the uncertainty principle either).

Rather like rolling a dice. We cannot predict which number it will land on, but if we had extremely accrate information on mass, direction, force and every other little thing, we could calculate it. Throwing a dice would no longer be a matter of chance, but a carefully contrived move to create a particular outcome.
I think life is exactly the same but on a far grander scale. Unfortunately we're light years away from reaching the point of understanding that would eliminate "chance".

 

[mosaix]

I believe in fate, but not in the traditional sense. I don't believe there's a divine being determining our every action; instead I believe in the inevitable outcome of physical laws.
I'm a determinist, so I believe that if we had enough information (like everything down to the path of every last sub atomic particle!) we could predict how everything would turn out (and I'm no fan of the uncertainty principle either).

Rather like rolling a dice. We cannot predict which number it will land on, but if we had extremely accrate information on mass, direction, force and every other little thing, we could calculate it. Throwing a dice would no longer be a matter of chance, but a carefully contrived move to create a particular outcome.
I think life is exactly the same but on a far grander scale. Unfortunately we're light years away from reaching the point of understanding that would eliminate "chance".

This is a dichotomy for me paradox.

On the one hand I believe strongly in free will. On the other hand I can't imagine the mechanism that would drive it.

I believe the human body and brain to be a machine but I know don't believe that there is any mechanism for a machine to generate random numbers (I know ERNIE can do it but I don't know of any similar structure within the human brain).

Now if we can't generate random numbers (and thoughts, actions etc.) that means that two humans given exactly the same experiences, conditions etc., would act in exactly the same way, each and every time - and bang goes freedom of will.

So I believe in free will but that belief conflicts with my beliefs of what a human being is.

 

[Paradox 99]

Hehe, excellent - I just love it when free will gets into the discussion. But I suppose it was bound to happen in a thread like this.

In my Christian days I used to believe that human beings had free will because I could allow for a being external to our reality creating something like that. But now I'm an atheist I see no way for this to be possible.

I personally think that humans only believe in free will because they are unable to gather enough information to see the motivation behind each decision. The only reason we appear to be able to generate random numbers in our minds is because we don't see the subtle and hidden mechanics behind that. There are a multitude of things that function in our bodies of which we have no inherent understanding about how they happen, but that doesn't follow that there's a non-natural explanation for each of them. It's the same with our imagination - we don't know how it works (yet) but it does.

But I don't believe that any two humans could come out with exactly the same random number sequence given the right conditions simply because each of us is very different to each other.

 

[Joel007]

It all depends on how much you realize about what is really going on...

And since I don't know, I just call everything coincidence until Fate can come and explain himself to me

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I'm a determinist, so I believe that if we had enough information (like everything down to the path of every last sub atomic particle!) we could predict how everything would turn out (and I'm no fan of the uncertainty principle either).

I guess you're no fan of Chaos Theory or just plain Luck either then?
I see where you're coming from with your ideas.
I agree that the more variables and information we have the better informed our decisions and predications would be. Weather forecasting is a good example - we can predict the weather with greater degrees of accuracy than 50 years ago.

However, the weather is also a great example of 'Luck'. Sometimes these sophisicated patterns interact with each other in the most suprising of ways.
I'm sure you could argue that with more information, advanced tech etc we could eventually improve again, but I doubt we will ever reach the 100% level. There are just too many plain, downright weird things which particles do which seem to defy our every attempt at prediction and logic.

Hence I believe a bit of both - I believe that we can arrange coincidences in a certain way to influence the result, but I also believe that we can influence the result but not 100% guarantee it. Maybe 99%, but never 100%

My 2c

 

[asher marquering]

but wouldn't you say that its impossible to determine every possible variable the human mind as i see it is extremely inquisitive for example we find out whats the smallest part of a sub atomic molecule is then questions of where did it come from? how did it come into being?

the mind will always ask questions and i think its thirst cannot be quenched

and about free will if one takes it to the level that we are completely responsible for ourselves wat bout outside influence? for example some one chooses to go to the bank on their way there their limbs are blown off in a terrorist attack does that mean that the person chose to have their limbs removed? or is it coincedence or fate

bookstop: how do you know when something is predetermined?

hey fck im too young to be thinking bout this type of sht lol

 

[BookStop]

bookstop: how do you know when something is predetermined?

Well, that's the trick. It comes down to your beliefs. You believe something to be Fate, then it is. If you are more cynical than that, you'd believe the same thing to just be coincidence.

 

[j d worthington]

Or not cynical, but sceptical, basing "beliefs", if you will, on evidence....

In which case, it isn't coincidence, but a series of deterministic leading to the likeliest probabilities, but sometimes skewed by the chaotic events at the tiniest quantum level ... perhaps not even particulate, but in the form of waves of energy as well....

 

[asher marquering]

bookstop thats exactly the point i wanted to show fate and coincedence are the same ... is a perception problem

jd thats some deep stuff

 

[the_faery_queen]

well it depends. if something keeps happening, it becomes hard tos ee it as a coindecence! i believe in fate. i dont' believe in religions or anything else, but i do think that some things are meant to be. like the house im living in now. i saw it months before. it was then taken off the rental page, as it had been let. then it reappeared. then it went off. then it reappeared again, cheaper! and this time i got it. it oculd be a coincidence that it kept falling through with the other people interested, or it oculd be that i was meant to have it. i see it as i was meant to have it. i think that somethings are meant to be

 

[jackokent]

I don't believe in fate as if I did I would have to believe in grand design and then I'd have to ask who's design and then I'd have to know who designed the designer and then I'd go mad...

And I think I am destined to be sane

 

[Milk]

I dont believe in fate, but I don't disbelieve in it either. Its in the same category for me as good and evil.

In the real world, I dont subscribe to these concepts, however to enjoy most stories I know I would have to try very hard to ignore the ideas.

So for the sake of telling a story, reading a story, or just simplifying a turn of events, I dont shy from using the words. It may be hypocrisy but I could say something like "Ted Bundy was evil and fated to die in the electric chair." and yet.. I dont believe in evil or fate. Its not so much contradiction as that im not that vigilant in controling how I speak. Im too used to using to words themselves.

Not believing in fate or good or evil does not stop me from using the words or enjoying them in stories. They are great plot devices.

 

[asher marquering]

hey milk if your writing bout something but you don't really believe in it how do u make it believable ?

 

[mosaix]

Everyone imagines coincidence to be very rare and then is astonished when it happens.

Think on this. I drove all the way from where I live to Norfolk, probably a trip of 200 miles. Just outside Norwich a guy in front of me slams on his brakes. He has no brake lights and I run into the back of him. Yeh I know it's my fault, I was too close - no argument. But we exchange addresses and he lives in the street next to me here in Shropshire.

Strange coincidence? Well not really. Think of all the thousands of times that you are driving along and, within a mile of you there is another driver (or several) who lives within a mile or two of you but you don't run into the back of him. It's only when you are aware of them there, as when you have an accident that it seems coincidental and unusual.

Another example. We've all done this - bumped into an aquaintance in the street in some far off town or country. Someplace we never expected to see them. But for every time that happens there are hundreds of occasions that we just miss bumping into someone we know because they just go round the corner, or get into a taxi as we arrive and we don't see them. The reason is that each and every one of us knows thousands of people and when these apparent coincidences occur it's usually in a popular place like a capital city or a popular holiday resort where it's likely that there will be one or two people that we know.

BTW for those that REALLY believe in fate, stop looking when you cross the road - just step out. If it's fated that your going to get hit then you will be, whether you look or not - that's the nature of fate. Or, maybe stop working so hard, if it's fated that you'll be successful - then you will be - what's the point of all the effort?

 

[asher marquering]

ok mr mosaix bout that whole coincedence thing ever think that maybe you were meant to bump into that guy for some yet unknown reason
and i dont think fate works exactly like that rather its a creation of our free will and some divine intervention

 

[mosaix]

ok mr mosaix bout that whole coincedence thing ever think that maybe you were meant to bump into that guy for some yet unknown reason

But then I would have to think that I wasn't meant to bump into all the other guys for some yet unkown reason - and that just makes everything that happens a coincidence doesn't it? And that just makes the whole thing nonsense - exactly my point.

and i dont think fate works exactly like that rather its a creation of our free will and some divine intervention

You're just making it up as you go along. Fate works EXACTLY like that.