Jack in Season 4 - attitude

[MythingLink]

I have been reading some really disturbing posts to different mailing lists about Jack and how his character has changed in Season 4. The majority of it deals with his relationship with Carter and how it is affecting the other members of the team. The latest has to do with his behaviour in Point of No Return towards Daniel. I'm not intimating that I either agree with or don't agree with these opinions. I would like to hear what others here have to say.

Some people have started to mention (or perhaps notice for the first time) that when Jack references Carter and Daniel he always puts Carter's name first. This isn't something that I've noticed and really couldn't say whether he's done it before Divide and Conquer. Reasons notwithstanding, I've just not thought that that was a reason to assume that Jack thinks of Carter before Daniel.

The second thing that has been batted around is that when Jack finds Carter and Daniel tied up in the warehouse, Carter is obviously alive because she's moving around. Daniel, however, is slumped over in his seat not moving. Yet when Jack approaches, he goes first to Carter and doesn't even talk to Daniel or check to see that he is alright. Some find this incredibly disturbing and they are commenting that if they were Daniel, they would transfer off of the team because it is showing definite favoritism. I honestly don't think this is anything I would have noticed if it weren't for Divide and Conquer and the others who have made this comment are honest enough to say the same, but now that we do know that there are 'feelings' running around out there, people are starting to notice little things like this and commenting on them negatively. I know of at least one person who isn't crying because she's going to be missing the next several episodes. I've also heard that some people are even becoming to dislike Jack and Carter because of this relationship angle and feel like TPTB have pushed a little too hard in bringing this out.

I am really concerned that we've all become to overly sensatized to this relationship thing and that it is clouding our perceptions of the characters. I'll be the first here to admit that it clouds mine. I can't look at the characters in quite the same way - all of them and it's really spoiling quite a few of the episodes for Season 4 for me. Especially when I see episodes like Beneath the Surface and see it as an episode made just so that the relationship angle can be explored some more.

I am generally an optimist, but what I see happening is beginning to make me wonder if TPTB made a serious mistake in bringing this out. There is even some speculation about the upcoming time travel episode isn't a way for them to fix this whole thing and make it as if it never happened. In my mind, this would just make the whole situation worse between the fans of the show and I sincerely hope that isn't what is going to happen.

I'm taking a deep breathe and I've decided I'm not going to get involved in the should they or shouldn't they of the whole thing. I'm going to try to enjoy the show for the reasons that I had when I first started watching it.

However I am interested and will comment on what is happening as far as character interaction is concerned. Now if that makes sense to anyone but me, I'll be surprised.

<G>

Cheers,

 

[ColJ]

I really don't see any change in Jack's attitude this season. There's been some question as to his feelings for Sam for a while now, and the writers bringing those feelings out of the closet for a couple of eps or more doesn't bother me. IMO, I haven't seen any change in Jack's attitude toward the other members of the team at all. As for BtS, I thought the writers barely touched on the Sam/Jack relationship. I certainly don't think that ep dwelt on their relationship instead of the erased memory/slavery issue. I think some people spend far too much time focusing on the Sam and Jack thing and not enough time just enjoying a great show.

 

[MythingLink]

I've got so say you are one of the few (actually the only one) I've seen that hasn't seen a change in Jack's attitude this season. I belong to several lists and that's all anyone is talking about right now and those that post all agree that there has been a shift in attitude. Granted those are the only one's posting.

A lot of it does center around the S/J thing because that's the only real thing that's happened that could account for the attitude. And also it's probably why everyone is spotting these things. They are on the look out, more or less, for it.

Since the shipper thing was all hints before, seen in looks Carter has made in the past and other little body language things that is what people are still looking at only they are looking at everyone. So when Jack goes first to Carter in Point of No Return and then when Martin tells everyone to run and Jack holds out an arm to Carter to make sure she gets out, and he doesn't look to see if Daniel who appeared in worse shape than Carter, starts running they see it as a dangerous shift.

People haven't been able to see the small, little scenes between Jack and Daniel this season that was seen in the previous 3 seasons. In some cases, Jack seems more abrupt towards Daniel in the eps this season.

It's all the little things people are seeing, facial expressions, body language, etc. that culminated in the pronouncement in D&C that people are worried about now, because if those heralded that revelations what kind of thing are these heading for?

Cheers,

 

[SGPflughaupt]

I think part of it is the fear of change....

we are all comfortable with the characters and how they interact with one another. But now the show throws in a little romance between Jack and Sam which has the potential of changes the whole group dynamic (Jack reponse to Sam,Sams to Jack....Jacks to Danny...etc.). We are use to thing of them as the Four Musketeers but what we fear is the Two Musketeers plus a couple of guys who hang around with them.

I dont mind the sexual tension between the two charaters but I dont want my nose dragged in it episode after episode. I like a little romance (even if I'm a guy ) but not to the point that every event in the show is looked on as a coy way to play up S and D's hidden feelings.

Ok...let the writers acknowledge that they have feeling that must be denied due to their positions and get on with the adventure. Save the love for the finale or something.

 

[LGammaRay2]

I do not feel that there has been any change in Jack's attitude this season. I am enjoying this season and each episode, as I always do. I, personally, have no problem with S/J moments, but I do not feel that they have been overdone. I think some people have been focusing on that, especially those who do not want to see them together. But in the context of the series, I think the writing continues to be superb and stories diverse. The character development is continuing to grow, as it should. The team consists of real people with real feelings thrown into extraordinary life and death situations. I'm sure that plays havaoc with one's emotions. Jack remains a strong leader who cares about his team members, albeit each in different ways and intensity, and his wit is ever present.

 

[jsc]

I feel there has been a change in Jack's attitude in Season 4. He is hot after technology to defeat the Goa'uld and this has lead to some "interesting" situations. In "The Otherside" he acted rashly and did not think of the consequences until the second attack by the breeders when he saw them die. Then he acted like the Jack of the past 3 seasons...remember COTG?, Spirits?, Rules of Engagement? to name three in each season off hand. In "Upgrades" he acted out of character and rashly, remember Hammond's "I thought the devices were supposed to enhance them physically, not make them stupid." after the incident at O'Malley's? Remember Teal'c's comment when they returned from blowing up the Goa'uld ship, when the other three apologized. Jack, "I apologize.", "Me, too (Two?)", "Me, three."... Teal'c, "I have nothing to apologize for (four?)."
And Hammond's tart support for Teal'c, "Teal'c was acting under orders." Jack is now thinking a little straighter as in "Beneath the Surface" but with odd results...His team was kidnapped and put to forced labor.
Now after "Tangent" where will Colonel O'Neill's need for technology go?
About Carter and Danny... Well he is suppressing the Carter feelings...but Danny is still, I think, a good friend. The writers are just showing more Teal'c/Jack interactions. Finallly I feel that Teal'c is comming out the the role of Faithful Black Servant that I thought he got stuck in last seasons (some of 2 and 3) because the white writers could not figure out what to do with an empowered and empowering Black Male. Teal'c's character is an interesting one to think but if he had been white the reaction (of fans and WRITERS alike) to him would have been more as the reaction to Leonard Nimoy's character of Mr. Spock, imANGRYho.(RANT, Rant, Flame, Flame)
If everyone fears that Danny and Jack are on the outs... after all the problems Hammond has had with Jack this season 4, what is their relationship now? No. Realistically, I feel everyone is looking at straws before there are straws but then this is TV and the slightest clues can be clues or red herrings.
So we really have a diversity of opinions on this topic of Jack and the character changes real and perceived, thank heavens, because our people are fun to THINK!!. Keep the posts comming!!!

 

[MythingLink]

It's an interesting point you brought up about Teal'c, but until I've heard otherwise I've got to go with what the actors themselves have said on Teal'c's position in the show. They've mentioned, as well as the producers I believe, that his character is one of the most difficult to write for because of the character's background and it's been felt that no one really knew what to do with him once they had him written into the show. So it's been a learning process for all of them to come up with plot lines that bring Teal'c out into the forefront.

I'm really glad that with this season they are teaming him up more with Jack and we're getting to see a more relaxed Teal'c - one who isn't afraid to have some fun like with the Magic Fingers and with Tangent when he's flying the death glider hybrid.

Cheers,

 

[jsc]

On one of the official channels I read that they will let Teal'c have more of a Brittish style humor. All I could thing of was the 1950's Ealing studio releases, the wildly funny British comedies, Monty Python and Benny Hill. OH!
But the Shakespeare did a range from the tongue in the tail (dog and brownnoser) takeoff in Twelfth Night to some character and situational humor, puns and etc. So, what is British humor?

 

[Major Carter]

Actually CJ said at the Gatecon in Vancouver that Teal'c will develope some sort of British humor as he finds out more about Earth!!

 

[Texane]

I'm a big SG fan, but frankly, some of these people need to get a life (Daniel should transfer off the team . . .). What crap.

 

[jsc]

I think people posts reveal as much about themselves as the characters they worry and write about! Don't think they will take Daniel off the team unless of course the Danielites steal him!

 

[skydiver]

like mything, i'm not going to drastically get into the should/shouldn't they debate. frankly the assurances of brad wright, rda and at that they're not going to get together is enough for me...and if i don't like it, what can i do? sue?
anyway, i think jack's attitude has changed a bit...but i feel it's more of a 'man i'm getting tired' sort of change. in many ways he appears to be teetering on the edge of burnout. look at it this way, he's been running around the universe getting shot full of holes by various aliens and he's needing a break.
also, i think hammond is under a lot of pressure to acquire tech, his comments at the end of the other side seemed to confirm that. chances are jack either knows of the pressure or has been told of it, so he feels it too.
think of it like working for a company and knowing that if you don't make your quota you'll get fired. that's stress.
and jack and hammond both seem to be under a lot of stress.

as to jack and sam:
remember back in upgrades and jack wouldn't leave her...what good would it have done if he had? we all saw that there was a force field preventing teal'c and danny from going back in...weren't there others? jack could have turned his back on sam, and run into his own force field a few yards down the corridor. so they could either die on their own or together...think back to matter of time. would jack want to leave anyone behind that was still alive? i think not.
in point of no return yes jack called out carter's name first though it was obvious she was at least alive. maybe that's cause he knew he'd get a response from her. she was at least semi-conscious. and what he wanted to know was where the bad guys were, who better to get an answer from than the awake person.
and there is also that chivalry thing. it may seem outdated but...i've worked in situations where i'm the only female in the department...not anything life threatening or anything like that but a lot of guys are raised to respect and protect girls...it's just one of those things. i'm willing to bet ya that all the guys are rather protective of sam. there are certainly situations they've been in where she's more vulnerable than them, emancipation for a prime example.
what some might see as favoritism may just be a dose of chivalry towards her.

ok, there's my .02 for what it's worth(ummm about .02 )

 

[jsc]

I think Jack does feel pressured to get alien tech. for the project. I think that is one of the changes mentioned. You mentioned it in another thread. RDA did say he likes the dark side to pop out every once in a while. I think that is a major reason for Chain Reaction. Also the loss of the stargate. Remember in Touchstone Jack's comment about losing the gate to Maybourne! Ramafications. And Jack is no dumbie! He likes the way he operates and would not have it as easy under another commander.. think of his reaction to General Vidrene's comments about his jokes in Tangent. Old Vidrene would haul him up in a minute!

[Edited by jsc on 11-03-2000 at 10:50 AM]

 

[Gilraen]

I think the raeson Jack's attitude towards Danny has changed because the Daniel has changed. He no longer needs Jack to help him out. He has been in enough difficult situations to know what Jack now expects of him. The J/D moments are still there. What about when Jack thinks he is going to die in Divide and Conquer. Beautiful moment!

I also agree with skydiver on the chivalry thing. Jack's chivalrous attitude has been there from the first time he and Sam stepped through the stargate in Children Of The Gods. I still believe that he has the best interests of his entire team at heart.

As for Teal'c's sense of humour, I've never quite understood the term British Humour. Being a Scot I know that we don't always have the same sense of humour as the english (Who finds the Royle Family even remotly funny?) But Teal'c is developing a very dry and underplayed sense of humour what is marvellous to watch.

 

[skydiver]

someone called teal'c's sense of humor grenade humor. it seems innocent at first but it'll blow up in your face in a few minutes.
t-man has definitely been loosening up, then again all the characters have changed. danny is mush less dependant on the others than he was before. this growing independance leads him to be freer speaking his mind. and also means his friendship with jack is a bit more of an equal than a mentor/son type.
sam is a lot more independant also. if you've seen chain reaction think about if season 1 carter would have reacted like season 4 carter did.
jack is also changing. he is less the team leader and more the defacto leader of the base. he has to step back and see more of the big picture which is occasionally you have to pander to your bosses if you want to keep your job.
he and the rest of sg-1 have a definite leadership position and that means all thier actions have more serious ramifications than they did in the past.
the sgc is supposedly on the verge of a goa'uld war, and this means the 'let's go exploring' aspect has changed to be a 'let's see what useful stuff we can find'.
the change in jack may also just be a change in the whole attitude of the show. face it, season 4 has had a lot darker eps than in seasons past.
it's also had a slightly higher bodycount.
you can look at it like season 4 of sg is akin to season 3 of b-5. the war is starting to fire up and things are changing. and our characters have to change with it.

 

[jsc]

Good points, skydiver, Thank You!

 

[Texane]

And, although O'Neill, and Teal'c for all practical purposes, were military to begin with (Sam was military, but on the scientific side), now they've all spent time being shot at (apart and together), and have all learned to take care of themselves and cover the team. I think that has made a difference in Carter and Jackson's characters. At the beginning of Season 1, Daniel would probably rather have picked up a snake (no pun intended) than a weapon. His job was/is to investigate and preserve life that is thousands of years old. Sam went through the academy, but in her last few years, was probably in a laboratory somewhere. Their characters' skills developed in the SG program have definitely made them more physical over the last three seasons.

Just a thought.

 

[jsc]

I agree about Sam and Daniel. But I think Sam was a soldier so weapons were not out of her perview entirely even though land bound!

Good points, Texane!

 

[skydiver]

true. sam has at least had some combat experience when she was in the gulf. and growing up in and around air force bases gives her a bit of an advantage to knowing how the military mind(such as it is) works.
danny on the other hand spent much of his life trying to fit in. from an early age he was exposed to different cultures by his parents on their various digs. then doing the foster home scene and then going back into archaeology, we know for a fact he spent time in the yucatan. all in all this will give him a very well rounded and unxenaphobic approach. he's been exposed to other cultures than the military one or the white anglo saxon american ideal(not that sam, jack and teal'c haven't but...well living on a military base in let's say france is far different than living in a chateau working and living surrounded by the locals) this to me is what makes him more open to the alien cultures they come across and quite frankly can be seen as a reason sg-1 hasn't been totally creamed.
he knows how to fit in, which is at least going by his attitudes in the first season or so, by being very unassuming and unpushy. he basically would hang around the edges until the locals let him in.
this is not the military way, they sorta tend to barge.
now however, that he's been with the sgc for years he's definitely gotten some confidence that should allow him to hold his own. he certainly did with bauer(some of his smart aleck remarks were of jack's caliber)
look at how hammond treated him in cotg, he didn't even want to talk with the guy, now in crystal skull, george doesn't even want to leave the base until he's found.
danny's sort of a wormer, he gently worms his way into your inner circle and quietly makes you trust him.

 

[jsc]

All very good traits for an anthropologist to have! Plus confidence!