Finding the 7th chevron - did they screw up?

[snaller]

I was visiting a nitpicker site, where someone observed the following about the movie:

To go somewhere you need to arrange seven chevrons
in the right order.

The first 6 are the destination coordinates.

The 7th is the point of origin, ie from where you start.

Doctor Langford specifically says they have gotten
6 Chevrons to lock previously, they are missing the last one.

The team has been looking for the last chevron for 2 years, Daniel finds it in 2 weeks.... BUT:

If there are only 39 glyphs on the gate, how long could it take to try out 39 combinations?! They already had the first 6...

Unfortunately that made disturbingly sense to me - on the other hand that would be very silly of the writers....

Is it too long since I have seen it, did we overlook something?

 

[MythingLink]

Originally posted by snaller
I was visiting a nitpicker site, where someone observed the following about the movie:


If there are only 39 glyphs on the gate, how long could it take to try out 39 combinations?! They already had the first 6...

Unfortunately that made disturbingly sense to me - on the other hand that would be very silly of the writers....

Is it too long since I have seen it, did we overlook something?

Not that I'm aware of. I've been wondering the same thing ever since I first saw the movie.

Cheers,

 

[KernalK]

Hmm, you're right! Why didn't that occur to me?

Maybe (should I be sticking up for those stoopid militaty guys, or the even stooooopider 'egyptologists') they REALLY didn't recognise the Earth glyph and got, say, half-way around the ring, and gave up because they thought that there might have been a clue somewhere else (possibly to do with nukes ). It then needed someone like the esteemed Dr. Jackson to come in with his rather wacky ancient Egypt ideas to spot the symbol and draw on their expensive monitors? If memory serves...

Alternatively: Maybe it was all a lie!

After all, they did find the 7th glyph in 1940-something...

You Decide...

On another nit-picking topic, how did they get that map to follow the MALP's position through the wormhole? How did they know they would need a map and a MALP?

How did they know they'd need a RAMP even!?

That's enough for today...

Kernal K

[Edited by KernalK on 12-12-2000 at 07:04 AM]

 

[MythingLink]

Originally posted by KernalK


You Decide...

On another nit-picking topic, how did they get that map to follow the MALP's position through the wormhole? How did they know they would need a map and a MALP?

How did they know they'd need a RAMP even!?

That's enough for today...

Kernal K

[Edited by KernalK on 12-12-2000 at 07:04 AM]

As my mother, bless her heart, always said, "It's because it was in the script."

Cheers,

 

[snaller]

Originally posted by MythingLink
As my mother, bless her heart, always said, "It's because it was in the script."
[/B]

Funny, that's what my mother used to say as well... I wonder if it was a fad a few decades ago!

 

[snaller]

Originally posted by KernalK
Hmm, you're right! Why didn't that occur to me?

Perhaps we were all wrapped up in gazing at the flying pyramids


Maybe (should I be sticking up for those stoopid militaty guys, or the even stooooopider 'egyptologists') they REALLY didn't recognise the Earth glyph and got, say, half-way around the ring, and gave up because they thought that there might have been a clue somewhere else (possibly to do with nukes ). It then needed someone like the esteemed Dr. Jackson to come in with his rather wacky ancient Egypt ideas to spot the symbol and draw on their expensive monitors? If memory serves...

Alternatively: Maybe it was all a lie!

After all, they did find the 7th glyph in 1940-something...

You Decide...


I'm not sure there is a good explanantion in the context of the original movie, if we want to 'fix' this we need a good does of the old <i>retcon</i>. A term, which I believe was invented by trekkers of olde, meaning <i>Retroactive Continuity</i> - which might be tied to


On another nit-picking topic, how did they get that map to follow the MALP's position through the wormhole? How did they know they would need a map and a MALP?

How did they know they'd need a RAMP even!?
[/QUOTE]

Clearly they had a theory (at least) about what the gate might be able to do. They had an original translation for the gate, Daniel changed it to 'stargate', but the orignal name had a somewhat similar meaning.

It was my impression that they thought this might be a means of transportation, however fantastic the notion. It seems prudent caution to have something scout the location before you boldly plunge through, hence a machine. And since C3PO is a bit off, a ramp would be needed. As for tracking the proto MALP, we know they can send ration signals back through the wormhole, so I guess it's a bit like radar?


However the original problem.... if we try and consider everything visual (ie film and series) as canon, we know that the gate was succesfully activated once before, in the fourties. Now, either this information had been forgotten at the time of the movie, or someone did know about it, but had chosen to keep it a secret.

Perhaps forgotten is the most likely scenario (I remember the Ark of the covenant in Indian Jones ), of course its not the most interesting.

Perhaps Maybourne and the NDI guys had been up to something. Maybe they had found the antartica gate and had been using it for a while in secret, hoping the other guys wouldn't find out(trying to block them at every turn) - when they did find out, the NDI thought they had no other choice but to return it. Remember it was found not far away from a military base.

Of course the second gate might have been found somewhere else entirely and quickly dumped in the Antartica.

I suppose its a bit of a stretch to suppose that the NDI would be scared and dump the second gate, but perhaps that is easier to retcon

 

[Rowan]

... Sounding like ...

This is beginning to sound like we need a new thread here.

Like: alt.stargate.SG-1.conspiracy_theory ? :}

 

[KernalK]

Thread...

Sounds like a good idea. Where would it go, though?

How about a new catagory?

Kernal K
(Or am I...)

 

[MythingLink]

Re: ... Sounding like ...

Originally posted by Rowan
This is beginning to sound like we need a new thread here.

Like: alt.stargate.SG-1.conspiracy_theory ? :}

You're wish is my command.

Cheers,

 

[Rowan]

Oh My ...

See... you never know just *who* is listening in around here... :}

 

[MythingLink]

Re: Oh My ...

Originally posted by Rowan
See... you never know just *who* is listening in around here... :}

Never. I expect someone to post there. Who would like to moderate the new section? Any takers?

Cheers,

 

[Rowan]

I'll do it

My silly idea, I'll take it. Besides, I *have* see 'black helicopters' landing at McChord, AFB just down the road.

Ya' never know...

 

[Rowan]

Come joint us...

... on Stargate Conspiracy Theories. The first post is on the board. :}

 

[MythingLink]

Re: I'll do it

Originally posted by Rowan
My silly idea, I'll take it. Besides, I *have* see 'black helicopters' landing at McChord, AFB just down the road.

Ya' never know...

Check it out.

Cheers,

 

[SGPflughaupt]

Not sure where to post this so will use this old thread (this old thing? just something I found lying around in the back of the closet ).....

The gate finds its coordinated by using six points for a reference...I assume this means that it focuses on six other gates (the symbols are identifying what gates to focus on) however.. how does it know these gates since we are using them to find the eighth gate (the seventh is ours). Why can they already 'find' the six.

Theory: the symbols are hardcoded to these 37? gates. Problem: They, also, are subject to spacial drift as mentioned in the pilot ep.

(btw:37? means I can't remember how many symbols are on the ring )

Theory: they are not gates but 37? special devices (or gates) that send out a constant signal (like the GPS system we used today). Problem: The 37? symbol is the Earth gate,therefore the earth gate and all other gates are in fact this 'special device' which actually limits us to 37 locations. Solution: only 36? specials with the 37 symbol (which can vary in design but is always the gate in use) being the origin gate. Problem: What if you want to go to a gate on the edge of the gate system, how does it 'locate' that gate,since there are no other gates farther out to use as a reference point. Solution: Maybe the 'specials' are not gates but devices farther out than any gate.

Final Theory: The symbols are not gates but devices that ring our galaxy. If you want to go to another galaxy (like the Asgard's) then you use the eight chevron to tell it to use the gate GPS system in that galaxy (of course that limits us to a max of 36 or 37? other galaxies).

Final Problem: If you circle an area of space with 36 devices and draw lines between all of them you show alot of points,however you also show a lot of space not covered with a point. If you assume that there is a function that causes the origin gate to begin a spiral search out from each point till it finds anther gate then how much space does one gate cover? in otherwords, how far away does a second gate have to be before it gains its own unique coordinate and therefore is dial-able?

 

[muzungu]

Hi SGPflughaupt

Although their are only 37 glyphs on the Earth gate there are likely to be many more on other gates. This is beacause each glyph represents a different constellation and astronomers have already identified 88 of them. It's likely that the Ancients found/had many more (constellations) as they had been observing the universe far longer than we have. Also as the gate system goes to other galaxies, then you must also include the number of constellations in those galaxies. Therefore there must be many more glyphs than the 37 on the Earth gate.

 

[snaller]

There are 39 symbols on the gate - read the thread will you.

 

[muzungu]

Hi snaller

I apologise for my inadvertent slip. However the rest of what i said is still applicable

 

[SGPflughaupt]

Still problems.

If the symbols indicate constellations then they would not be very accurate as the stars move over time and the constellations are not constant. And still...what are the gates using to mark their coordinates? If you assume a GPS system that surround the galaxy with more than 36 units then you must assume that one gate can not link up to all points in the galaxy. You would have to gate to another that had the symbols for the other GPS units. Nothing in the show has indicated this so far,in fact it seems to infer that all gates connect to all gates.

If you dont have a GPS system outside of the area where the gates are located (ie a galaxy) then you go back to the problem that the gates on the edge are unreachable because they now defined the area and therefore can not be included in the six point reference system.

Of course you could assume that these are 'special' gates that are hardwired into all gates and there for need only their symbol to active the gate (plus of course the symbol for the origin).

But once again you have to assume that there are more than 36 'special' gates or you have a heck of lot of space not included even near a coordinate (maybe thats why Thor's people still have starships?).

hmmmmm....if there are only 36 points than any coordinate point becomes stratigically important especially to the Goa'uld because you can get between those points quicker with a gate than a starship. And any space nearby would be reachable quicker from the gate by short starship trip from that gate rather than traveling all the way across the galaxy in a starship therefore allowing control of the other worlds close enough to the gate but farther than from any other gate.

The military implications are great here.

 

[muzungu]

Hi SGPflughaupt

In Children of the Gods Daniel Jackson says that he has traced some othe glyphs out in the night sky of Abydos. Also many of the glyphs on the stargate (such as Orion) are clearly identifiable with constellations in the night sky.

However I do agree with you on the fact that the constellations would be a poor coordinate system.

It could be that each glyph corresponds to a particular value so that the first 6 glyphs of an address are similar to the coordinate systems used by astronomers today and the seventh is simply the starting planet