Impact that killed the dinosaurs?
- Thread starter Brian G Turner
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Matteo
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I go with the theory that the asteroid (and related effects) was the major cause, but the Deccan eruptions helped.
On the other hand, I do wonder if it's possible to accurately establish the effects of a bloody great lump of rock hitting the Earth 67myo (either way - i.e., they could be under-estimated, as well as over).
On the other hand, I do wonder if it's possible to accurately establish the effects of a bloody great lump of rock hitting the Earth 67myo (either way - i.e., they could be under-estimated, as well as over).
Matteo, I agree with most of what you say, but I would add that there is a site that dates from the day of the impact up near the Canadian border that provides pretty darn convincing evidence of the extent of the damage.
On the other hand, the attached link 'proves' that there was no K/T impact at all. The supposed evidence for the impact is actually a result of the Genesis Flood 4500 years ago. I love the way it makes statements of opinion and claims them as statements of fact.
On the other hand, the attached link 'proves' that there was no K/T impact at all. The supposed evidence for the impact is actually a result of the Genesis Flood 4500 years ago. I love the way it makes statements of opinion and claims them as statements of fact.
THE K/T BOUNDARY - Creation Engineering Concepts
Lately, I have been trying to wrap my head around the concept of the K/T Boundary. According to evolutionists, the K/T Boundary is a known geologic, physical, reality. It is defined as a physical marker for an ancient extinction event in earth history. This “marker” is said to be something that...
www.creationengineeringconcepts.org
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Do you have a link for that?
According to the tv series Dinosaurs , it was corporate greed which bought on nuclear winter that resulted in their extinction.
"Do you have a link for that?"
No, but a Google search will probably bring it up.
[Edit - Google 'Tanis Site']
Wave 10 to 30 meters high near the northern end of the Western Interior Seaway triggered by the impact 1900 miles to the south caused land movement that arrived earlier than the impact tsunami resulted in a mix of tektites, fish, turtles, plants, and land dwellers (including the dino that got its leg torn off). If I remember correctly, the dino leg also preserved skin and muscle impressions, but don't hold me to that.
No, but a Google search will probably bring it up.
[Edit - Google 'Tanis Site']
Wave 10 to 30 meters high near the northern end of the Western Interior Seaway triggered by the impact 1900 miles to the south caused land movement that arrived earlier than the impact tsunami resulted in a mix of tektites, fish, turtles, plants, and land dwellers (including the dino that got its leg torn off). If I remember correctly, the dino leg also preserved skin and muscle impressions, but don't hold me to that.
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Dinosaurs was tv sitcom produced by Brian Henson. It lasted last 4 seasons . It's wonderful satire .
Ah, yes, done that - that's the site for the study which I just mentioned as making wild claims for a local finding being applied globally.
Also, it appears that the Tanis claims are driven by a single figure the science press describes as "controversial" because he prefers making his claims in the general media rather than in scientific journals. He's also been accused of faking data:
Paleontologist accused of faking data in dino-killing asteroid paper
Scientist who oversees famed extinction-day site denies claims he made up data to scoop a former collaborator
www.science.org
No offence @JimC but I've tried to keep this thread focused on reports in the scientific press, whereas your opinions appear to be based from just watching a TV program.
Btw, polite notice that any more diversions in this thread will be removed @BAYLOR - this thread is a 20-year archive of scientific developments that I'm not going to let be subverted into chatter about TV comedy series - there are other places on the forums where you can post about that.
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Matteo
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To nail my colours to the mast, and explain what I said last. Considering how quickly (in geological time) the extinction happened - and there evidence for this - it seems logical that the cause was catastrophic.
An asteroid fits the bill - and I suspect that the estimation of the impact of err...the impact is an underestimation. After all, we have good verifiable data of the effects of contemporary volcanic eruptions that could be reasonably scalled up. We don't have that for (sizeable) asteroid impacts - it's mainly lab work.
But I'm writing this on a train in the middle of Lithuania so it's a touch difficult to go into detail or cite.
An asteroid fits the bill - and I suspect that the estimation of the impact of err...the impact is an underestimation. After all, we have good verifiable data of the effects of contemporary volcanic eruptions that could be reasonably scalled up. We don't have that for (sizeable) asteroid impacts - it's mainly lab work.
But I'm writing this on a train in the middle of Lithuania so it's a touch difficult to go into detail or cite.
"No offence @JimC but I've tried to keep this thread focused on reports in the scientific press, whereas your opinions appear to be based from just watching a TV program".
That appears to be an unsubstantiated conclusion on your part since I haven't done either - but that's OK, I don't mind, and I don't make personal accusations.
Paleontology is a highly competitive field - a lot of folks don't get along, and it sometimes shows. Accusations don't constitute proof. Read During's paper instead - it draws very similar conclusions. Personally, regarding event timing, the spherules imbedded in the fish gills made a big impression on me.
That appears to be an unsubstantiated conclusion on your part since I haven't done either - but that's OK, I don't mind, and I don't make personal accusations.
Paleontology is a highly competitive field - a lot of folks don't get along, and it sometimes shows. Accusations don't constitute proof. Read During's paper instead - it draws very similar conclusions. Personally, regarding event timing, the spherules imbedded in the fish gills made a big impression on me.
Based on the content of this thread, I would assume that I'm not the only contributor who has served as technical director on a paleo documentary, or been a contributing author in a research journal.
Would any of our other contributors who has served as director or producer on paleo documentaries or has been a contributing author in any of the paleo research journals like to comment on their experiences?
As an aside, I don't watch paleo documentaries. Do any of you other guys who have worked on them?
Would any of our other contributors who has served as director or producer on paleo documentaries or has been a contributing author in any of the paleo research journals like to comment on their experiences?
As an aside, I don't watch paleo documentaries. Do any of you other guys who have worked on them?
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Dinosaurs lived on Earth for over 100 million years. That's a pretty long time In which it's extremely likely that quite a number of large rocks would have collided with our planet, and quite a number of mega volcanic eruptions.
Perhaps it was an accumulation of these events that eroded the atmosphere and vegetation, meaning that only smaller species continued to exist.
Perhaps it was an accumulation of these events that eroded the atmosphere and vegetation, meaning that only smaller species continued to exist.
"That's a pretty long time In which it's extremely likely that quite a number of large rocks would have collided with our planet"
That's true. For example, a 5km asteroid impacts on average about every 20 million years. So during any given 100 million year period, the odds of being impacted by a 5km rock are about 99.33%.
The asteroid that impacted Wetumpka, Alabama about 80-83 million years ago was fairly typical. It was about 350 meters in diameter.
That's true. For example, a 5km asteroid impacts on average about every 20 million years. So during any given 100 million year period, the odds of being impacted by a 5km rock are about 99.33%.
The asteroid that impacted Wetumpka, Alabama about 80-83 million years ago was fairly typical. It was about 350 meters in diameter.
Yeah, I was in danger of being personal and for that I apologize. It's simply because you've dogged these threads with statements from the single same controversial person and same single site, which were all apparently aired in the same documentary a while back. If you look through this thread I've used it as an archive for some of the more interesting scientific studies from around the world over the past couple of decades.
DePalma seems to be an outlier all by himself, a controversial figure making a lot of extraordinary claims. I can't help but be reminded of Schliemann in the 19th century, who, when digging in the ruins of ancient Mycenae, upon finding a gold burial mask, declared that he'd literally found "the face of Agamemnon". In this instance, DePalma alone of all the world's geologists has found an exact record of the exact day of the asteroid impact.
For a start, being able to identify a single day from the geological record is without precedent. He also appears to completely disregard the possibility of any other cause for the Tanis site - were there no natural disasters such as floods or hurricanes in the region that might have created the fossil bed long before the impact? After all, that's how most others are formed.
Also, although I've only looked briefly, some of the claims seem to contract themselves - in one, the site is evidence of a tsunami hitting the region because of a mix of fresh and salt-water fish fossils present; the next, there's no evidence of a tsunami or salt-water fish and instead it's freshwater lake with no intrusions. And I also fail to see how a severed leg is evidence of an asteroid impact to the exclusion of all other causes. It doesn't matter if dating techniques put any of these close to the time of the impact, it cannot be proof of being connected.
If there are asteroid spherules in some of the fossils, does that mean they could only have arrived on the day of the impact? We know the Deccan Traps eruptions had already started a mass extinction event through climate change, and we can see today how climate change can result is extreme weather events and natural disasters. So what excludes the possibility of the fossil bed having been caused by a flash flood thousands of years previously, only for invertebrates afterwards to have substantially mixed up the dating layers through burrowing activity, introducing much later deposits, including the spherules, into earlier ones? It's a common dating problem in archaeology - modern debris can be found beneath the stones of Stonehenge, even though they were clearly put up thousands of years previously, due to the activity of earthworms and rabbits.
Anyway, evidence from a single site should correlate with evidence from other sites around the world, and we don't appear to have that, even though we have a pretty decent global fossil record from the K-T boundary. If claims for one site aren't supported by the others, then there's probably a problem with that site's claims.
The biggest extinction events in the fossil record all correlate to the biggest volcanic eruptions. The worst of all was the Permian-Triassic event around 250 million years ago, sometimes referred to as "The Great Dying" because it almost destroyed all complex life on Earth. That's been firmly pinned on Siberia turning into one massive volcanic field, which created about 50% more lava than the Deccan Traps volcanism at the end of the Cretaceous period. However, some researchers are now looking to see if they can pin an asteroid strike on that.
We also have evidence of a couple of much bigger asteroid impacts than the Chixculub one much earlier in the geological record, and through this was before complex life, I'm not aware of any study showing a sudden devastation of microorganisms, which would have left clear bands in the sedimentary record. In fact, I'm not aware of any similar evidence associated with the Chixculub impact, even though some impact-only scientists talk about plankton being mostly wiped out from the world's oceans - the white cliffs of Dover only show normal banding across this period.
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A gamma burst from a Pulsar, a star going nova within 25 light years of us , a wandering Black hole. or planetary body .
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