Asmiley
lost in Time
Danny is just so awesom it was inevitable for him to win.
Danielites Discussion
- Thread starter Asmiley
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summershake
Well-Known Member
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And he's still in the lead!
Daniel better than JACK?????
Daniel better than Jack???
No WAY! Not even in his best moments does he even come close, from what Stargate episodes I have watched, since discovering the show a couple of months back. And I recently purchased the BOXSETS and started watching them from the beginning.
From watching the TV show: this is what I have taken away about Daniel so far --
He is self-focused - his ONLY reason for joining up with SG1 was to hunt down his missing wife. PERIOD. He had no interest in a greater good. No desire to help anybody else -- no concern for any other race of people out there that would come into harms way, why -- it was plain that IF his wife hadn't fallen victim to the Goa'uld -- Daniel would have refused to leave Abydos at all.
When they are at the SGC -- he simply refuses to offer his help in any way EXCEPT to say that he demands to be with SG1 -- TO FIND HIS WIFE. That's it. In episode after Episode...whenever there is a tiny hint that there might be a chance for him to find the missing-wife -- he throws caution to the wind, despite what risks he drags Jack, Teal'c and Sam into -- and seriously thinks it's okay.
He constantly mouths off about not having to follow Military rules -- because he's a civilian -- well, has he ever heard of TREASON? He constantly disregards Jack's right to command. He's always showing Jack disrespect - in ways that a real friend would not. In ways that go FAR beyond challenging a difference of opinion.
He plays the "Teal'c is a villain-- he stole my wife--gave her to the bad guys" card to the hilt.... like he's the only one who ever had to make any sacrifices on the team...ever suffered any loses.
And that's just a general overview--- without going into specific episodes of just the first 2 Seasons alone. I was stunned when watching each show of how many times this Daniel did things that were---were---
ARG!!!!
To me: Daniel represents the Generation of people who want to do as they want, regardless of who they hurt and never be held accountable for their actions.
In fan fiction -- the writers work over time to create a DANIEL that just doesn't exist on the show. They work overtime to create a relationship between Jack and Daniel that also doesn't exist.
Daniel better than JACK.....
Not in the Stargate show I am watching? Is there more than one version?
Jack is a Real man -- a Real Warrior -- a Real Commander-- and YES-- a REAL Friend -- even to Daniel, when he doesn't deserve it.
Daniel better than Jack???
No WAY! Not even in his best moments does he even come close, from what Stargate episodes I have watched, since discovering the show a couple of months back. And I recently purchased the BOXSETS and started watching them from the beginning.
From watching the TV show: this is what I have taken away about Daniel so far --
He is self-focused - his ONLY reason for joining up with SG1 was to hunt down his missing wife. PERIOD. He had no interest in a greater good. No desire to help anybody else -- no concern for any other race of people out there that would come into harms way, why -- it was plain that IF his wife hadn't fallen victim to the Goa'uld -- Daniel would have refused to leave Abydos at all.
When they are at the SGC -- he simply refuses to offer his help in any way EXCEPT to say that he demands to be with SG1 -- TO FIND HIS WIFE. That's it. In episode after Episode...whenever there is a tiny hint that there might be a chance for him to find the missing-wife -- he throws caution to the wind, despite what risks he drags Jack, Teal'c and Sam into -- and seriously thinks it's okay.
He constantly mouths off about not having to follow Military rules -- because he's a civilian -- well, has he ever heard of TREASON? He constantly disregards Jack's right to command. He's always showing Jack disrespect - in ways that a real friend would not. In ways that go FAR beyond challenging a difference of opinion.
He plays the "Teal'c is a villain-- he stole my wife--gave her to the bad guys" card to the hilt.... like he's the only one who ever had to make any sacrifices on the team...ever suffered any loses.
And that's just a general overview--- without going into specific episodes of just the first 2 Seasons alone. I was stunned when watching each show of how many times this Daniel did things that were---were---
ARG!!!!
To me: Daniel represents the Generation of people who want to do as they want, regardless of who they hurt and never be held accountable for their actions.
In fan fiction -- the writers work over time to create a DANIEL that just doesn't exist on the show. They work overtime to create a relationship between Jack and Daniel that also doesn't exist.
Daniel better than JACK.....
Not in the Stargate show I am watching? Is there more than one version?
Jack is a Real man -- a Real Warrior -- a Real Commander-- and YES-- a REAL Friend -- even to Daniel, when he doesn't deserve it.
re: Daniel better than Jack?
Daniel has no interest in the greater good? No desire to help anyone else? No concern for any other race of people out there who would come in harm's way? I don't know what show you've been watching but it certainly can't be Stargate because the Daniel you described is not the Daniel I've been seeing in the show since the beginning.
Time and time again, Daniel has shown interest, compassion and a desire to communicate and understand other races they've encountered in the worlds SG1 has explored. Along with his teammates he's helped to save Earth on more than one occasion and he's also done his fair share of saving his teammates and watching their backs.
Just a few examples off the top of my head:
If it hadn't been for Daniel getting the coordinates of the planet where the Goald attack originated in the AU reality then insisting that SG1 go there to prevent the Goald from attacking in his own reality, the Goauld would have destroyed Earth.
If he hadn't worked tirelessly through the night to figure out what happened to Sam and Jack in Solutions they would have died in the Antarctic.
He forgave Teal'c and worked alongside him despite their painful history. And he gave up a chance to save Sha're and Skaara when he destroyed Thor's Hammer to save Teal'c. Plus he passionately defended Teal'c in the Cor-ai when Teal'c was going to be put to death. He just as passionately defended the rights of the Tollan in Enigma when Maybourne tried to take them into custody and put himself in harm's way when he stood in front of a group of soldiers aiming guns at him in the gateroom.
He stayed by Jack's side and refused to leave him in the Fifth Race when Jack had the knowledge of the Ancients downloaded into his brain. In Serpent's Song, despite his hatred for Apophis, he showed compassion and respect for the host and comforted him while he was dying. He also showed concern and compassion for the natives in One False Step and helped to figure out what was wrong and save them.
He found a way to save both the Enkarans and the Gadmeer in Scorched Earth and died along with the rest of SG1 in 2010 in trying to send a note back in time to warn the SGC about the Aschen. In The First Ones, he had a chance to kill Chaka, but instead tried to understand and communicate with him and in doing so he not only saved his own life but also made a friend and ally.
You very conveniently forget to mention Meridian, where Daniel sacrificed his life to save the Kelownans and the rest of SG1 and died a very horrible death from radiation poisoning. And you call a man who dies to save thousands if not millions of lives selfish? Someone who doesn't care about other people? Unbelievable.
And if Daniel was only on SG1 for his own selfish reasons to save his wife, why did he stay on the team and continue to go through the gate and risk his life for Earth long after Sha're died?
As to the question of whether Daniel is better than Jack - I happen to love them both and think they're both good men.
Just my 2 cents.
Yoshima
Daniel has no interest in the greater good? No desire to help anyone else? No concern for any other race of people out there who would come in harm's way? I don't know what show you've been watching but it certainly can't be Stargate because the Daniel you described is not the Daniel I've been seeing in the show since the beginning.
Time and time again, Daniel has shown interest, compassion and a desire to communicate and understand other races they've encountered in the worlds SG1 has explored. Along with his teammates he's helped to save Earth on more than one occasion and he's also done his fair share of saving his teammates and watching their backs.
Just a few examples off the top of my head:
If it hadn't been for Daniel getting the coordinates of the planet where the Goald attack originated in the AU reality then insisting that SG1 go there to prevent the Goald from attacking in his own reality, the Goauld would have destroyed Earth.
If he hadn't worked tirelessly through the night to figure out what happened to Sam and Jack in Solutions they would have died in the Antarctic.
He forgave Teal'c and worked alongside him despite their painful history. And he gave up a chance to save Sha're and Skaara when he destroyed Thor's Hammer to save Teal'c. Plus he passionately defended Teal'c in the Cor-ai when Teal'c was going to be put to death. He just as passionately defended the rights of the Tollan in Enigma when Maybourne tried to take them into custody and put himself in harm's way when he stood in front of a group of soldiers aiming guns at him in the gateroom.
He stayed by Jack's side and refused to leave him in the Fifth Race when Jack had the knowledge of the Ancients downloaded into his brain. In Serpent's Song, despite his hatred for Apophis, he showed compassion and respect for the host and comforted him while he was dying. He also showed concern and compassion for the natives in One False Step and helped to figure out what was wrong and save them.
He found a way to save both the Enkarans and the Gadmeer in Scorched Earth and died along with the rest of SG1 in 2010 in trying to send a note back in time to warn the SGC about the Aschen. In The First Ones, he had a chance to kill Chaka, but instead tried to understand and communicate with him and in doing so he not only saved his own life but also made a friend and ally.
You very conveniently forget to mention Meridian, where Daniel sacrificed his life to save the Kelownans and the rest of SG1 and died a very horrible death from radiation poisoning. And you call a man who dies to save thousands if not millions of lives selfish? Someone who doesn't care about other people? Unbelievable.
And if Daniel was only on SG1 for his own selfish reasons to save his wife, why did he stay on the team and continue to go through the gate and risk his life for Earth long after Sha're died?
As to the question of whether Daniel is better than Jack - I happen to love them both and think they're both good men.
Just my 2 cents.
Yoshima
Daniel -- multiple personalities?
Hi Yoshima. Thanks for your great response to my post--- it gives me food for thought. I hav not seen all the episodes you have mentioned, as I have only been watching the show for a short time. My preception of Daniel and the other Characters, so far, is based on what I have watched -- so perhaps as I continued to learn about the show, and gain insight into Daniel, I can better warm up to him.
Of the Shows or moments you mentioned that I do know, what comes to mind is:
When Sam and Jack were trapped in the Antarctic - Daniel was involved in trying to find and rescue them. BUT, he didn't do it alone. As I recall, at least Teal'c and Hammond were equally concerned and also working to try and figure out where Sam and Jakc were. So why should Daniel get singular credit?
Hi Yoshima. Thanks for your great response to my post--- it gives me food for thought. I have not seen all the episodes you have mentioned, as I have only been watching the show for a short time. My perception of Daniel and the other Characters, so far, is based on what I have watched -- so perhaps as I continued to learn about the show, and gain insight into Daniel, I can better warm up to him.
Of the Shows or moments you mentioned that I do know, what comes to mind is:
When Sam and Jack were trapped in the Antarctic - Daniel was involved in trying to find and rescue them. BUT, he didn't do it alone. As I recall, at least Teal'c and Hammond were equally concerned and also working to try and figure out where Sam and Jack were. So why should Daniel get singular credit?
In Thor's Hammer -- which I thinks is outstanding for the Teal'c/Jack moments/buddy events....yes, Daniel does destroy the device. BUT, from my viewer point, it was only because Jack placed the weapon in his hand and basically TOLD him to do it. I honestly believe that if Daniel did not have the pressure of knowing that he would have lost Jack's respect and possible Jack's support and friendship, he would NOT have destroyed the device. And remember, before he did pull the trigger, he commented about there probably being another such device somewhere else. And in reality, Daniel had to understand that even if he hadn’t destroyed Thor’s hammer—Jack would have.
So-- to me, what Daniel did was sort of like begrudgingly giving somebody a present, because the other family members expected it.... and there was too high a price to pay for not complying.
On the issue of saving both the Enkarans and the Gadmeer in “Scorched Earth"....once again, I have to say --- and this is coming from my own writers POV -- that how the final issue of how Daniel decided to go against Jack in that event, was handled --- really was a poorly written plot device. The Stargate writers set up this storyline -- establishing a technologically superior race, who, in order to assure their own survival -- came to the Enkaran's planet -- and began to murder them.
They glossed over that fact by indicating that the PLANET was being modified -- and WHOOPS, sorry-- that meant it was no longer habitable by the Enkarans -- but, hey.... comes down to the same thing. That's no different that an Earth equivalent of: Some "event" happens in say, Island A -- and the people living there now have to leave and find a new place to live. They discover that ISLAND B is totally what they need and want---with one little problem.... it’s already got a few hundred thousand other inhabitants on it.
But no problem -- because our Island A folks have the weapons to simple go in and take out everybody on Island B. And proceed to try and do so.... with an "It's them or us" attitude. Survival of the fittest at all costs.
What would Daniel do in that case, do you think?
Then, in order to salvage the matter, and Daniel’s character – making Jack once again look like this savage Military warrior who can only think to order Sam to make a bomb…. used the Devine Salvation stunt—viia a Computer Generated Being.
See -- what the writers/show/ fan fiction people never have addressed (to my knowledge) is-- WHAT IF there hadn't BEEN that "quick fix" thrown in? What if Mr. Computer-Ship man hadn't just whipped out another planet from the millions in the database that just happened to be what the Enkarans needed? What would Daniel have decided then?
I am confident that Jack would have stood his place on the planet -- even to his own death. And Teal’c would have remained by his side.
What do you think Daniel would have done in that event?
Of the later season shows I have seen --- I guess the one event that stands out in my mind -- when Jack, Sam, Daniel and Jacob are in Jacob's ship -- faced off against Aphosis -- and Daniel calls out, "We surrender!"
WHAT!????
Then when Jack responds with, "....Daniel...."
Daniel hisses back about trying to buy them more time?
Sorry -- but at that second in time and no matter how many times I have rewatched that sequence -- I am left feeling sooooo flabbergasted and disgusted with Daniel for what he says...and so disappointed in Jack for not taking Daniel on at a later point over it.
All I know is – at this point – after watching that sequence of shows, is: I do not want Daniel watching my back! And….Daniel needs to be brought up on some serious charges in front of Hammond – to be taught just who is in CHARGE during critical moments on a mission. Not only did he step all over Jack – he stepped all over Jacob’s command in that second in time.
And who is Daniel to surrender for the others?
At some point, I am sure I will be able to watch the other shows you have mentioned and will enjoy discussing them with you. I guess the other MB's designed for discussing each season is where we do that?
Thanks again for the interesting exchange!
Hi Yoshima. Thanks for your great response to my post--- it gives me food for thought. I hav not seen all the episodes you have mentioned, as I have only been watching the show for a short time. My preception of Daniel and the other Characters, so far, is based on what I have watched -- so perhaps as I continued to learn about the show, and gain insight into Daniel, I can better warm up to him.
Of the Shows or moments you mentioned that I do know, what comes to mind is:
When Sam and Jack were trapped in the Antarctic - Daniel was involved in trying to find and rescue them. BUT, he didn't do it alone. As I recall, at least Teal'c and Hammond were equally concerned and also working to try and figure out where Sam and Jakc were. So why should Daniel get singular credit?
Hi Yoshima. Thanks for your great response to my post--- it gives me food for thought. I have not seen all the episodes you have mentioned, as I have only been watching the show for a short time. My perception of Daniel and the other Characters, so far, is based on what I have watched -- so perhaps as I continued to learn about the show, and gain insight into Daniel, I can better warm up to him.
Of the Shows or moments you mentioned that I do know, what comes to mind is:
When Sam and Jack were trapped in the Antarctic - Daniel was involved in trying to find and rescue them. BUT, he didn't do it alone. As I recall, at least Teal'c and Hammond were equally concerned and also working to try and figure out where Sam and Jack were. So why should Daniel get singular credit?
In Thor's Hammer -- which I thinks is outstanding for the Teal'c/Jack moments/buddy events....yes, Daniel does destroy the device. BUT, from my viewer point, it was only because Jack placed the weapon in his hand and basically TOLD him to do it. I honestly believe that if Daniel did not have the pressure of knowing that he would have lost Jack's respect and possible Jack's support and friendship, he would NOT have destroyed the device. And remember, before he did pull the trigger, he commented about there probably being another such device somewhere else. And in reality, Daniel had to understand that even if he hadn’t destroyed Thor’s hammer—Jack would have.
So-- to me, what Daniel did was sort of like begrudgingly giving somebody a present, because the other family members expected it.... and there was too high a price to pay for not complying.
On the issue of saving both the Enkarans and the Gadmeer in “Scorched Earth"....once again, I have to say --- and this is coming from my own writers POV -- that how the final issue of how Daniel decided to go against Jack in that event, was handled --- really was a poorly written plot device. The Stargate writers set up this storyline -- establishing a technologically superior race, who, in order to assure their own survival -- came to the Enkaran's planet -- and began to murder them.
They glossed over that fact by indicating that the PLANET was being modified -- and WHOOPS, sorry-- that meant it was no longer habitable by the Enkarans -- but, hey.... comes down to the same thing. That's no different that an Earth equivalent of: Some "event" happens in say, Island A -- and the people living there now have to leave and find a new place to live. They discover that ISLAND B is totally what they need and want---with one little problem.... it’s already got a few hundred thousand other inhabitants on it.
But no problem -- because our Island A folks have the weapons to simple go in and take out everybody on Island B. And proceed to try and do so.... with an "It's them or us" attitude. Survival of the fittest at all costs.
What would Daniel do in that case, do you think?
Then, in order to salvage the matter, and Daniel’s character – making Jack once again look like this savage Military warrior who can only think to order Sam to make a bomb…. used the Devine Salvation stunt—viia a Computer Generated Being.
See -- what the writers/show/ fan fiction people never have addressed (to my knowledge) is-- WHAT IF there hadn't BEEN that "quick fix" thrown in? What if Mr. Computer-Ship man hadn't just whipped out another planet from the millions in the database that just happened to be what the Enkarans needed? What would Daniel have decided then?
I am confident that Jack would have stood his place on the planet -- even to his own death. And Teal’c would have remained by his side.
What do you think Daniel would have done in that event?
Of the later season shows I have seen --- I guess the one event that stands out in my mind -- when Jack, Sam, Daniel and Jacob are in Jacob's ship -- faced off against Aphosis -- and Daniel calls out, "We surrender!"
WHAT!????
Then when Jack responds with, "....Daniel...."
Daniel hisses back about trying to buy them more time?
Sorry -- but at that second in time and no matter how many times I have rewatched that sequence -- I am left feeling sooooo flabbergasted and disgusted with Daniel for what he says...and so disappointed in Jack for not taking Daniel on at a later point over it.
All I know is – at this point – after watching that sequence of shows, is: I do not want Daniel watching my back! And….Daniel needs to be brought up on some serious charges in front of Hammond – to be taught just who is in CHARGE during critical moments on a mission. Not only did he step all over Jack – he stepped all over Jacob’s command in that second in time.
And who is Daniel to surrender for the others?
At some point, I am sure I will be able to watch the other shows you have mentioned and will enjoy discussing them with you. I guess the other MB's designed for discussing each season is where we do that?
Thanks again for the interesting exchange!
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