6.04: Frozen

[CynVision]

Originally posted by Hatshepsut
Actually, I think episode 4 is quite a bad time to put in a cr*p episode. They did that with 'Enterprise'. I never watched it again. I mean, we'd had a good beginning and then it just seemed like they'd shot their bolt and it was going to be downhill all the way thereafter.

I'm catching up with Farscape on DVD in season 1. I'm also waiting for the "other shoe" so to speak. The Farscape series started so strong. Out of the 12 I have the DVD for, I can't find one that's as cr :blpaw: p as some in the Enterprise or SG series. Somehow they pull everything out at the last moment and at least forward poor John's humasitic voyage in some way. I can't believe that they can do that forever and I expect that as I venture into season two they'll be some less that stellar ones.

But overall each series has its strengths to play on. Good US/Canadian CGI is Stargate's. I think they turn out some stuff that's simply fantastic TV. Sometimes doing simple stuff you can do at home. Stargate's tech guys really did some ground breaking animation in Nemesis and Small Victories that had never been done before. And they turn it out quickly. But sometimes the old spaceship stuff that Farscape did in season one is far superior in the pure CGI department. Sometimes I feel the art department in Farscape has far more to draw on and far greater freedoms. They have some very defined styles for what Moya should be like, what a Peacekeeper ship is like, and apply some very basic costume things that I learned in the theater trade. And for all the scorn the regular viewers of Stargate shower on the Muppets of Farscape, the puppeteers over on Farscape have tons of more experience and if they were working Thor, he and the Asgard would be an entirely more attractive entity on Stargate.

I shouldn't get so hung up on the differing looks of the two programs. It can boil down to budgets and stuff like that. The two productions are different in a lot of ways. The real trouble with the latest episodes of Stargate is its lack of the Stargate it's named for. Somehow in the episodes where Moya isn't a key figure, or missing entirely, Farscape fairs better. They rely on their universe of wondrous stuff to play with, while Stargate has seemed to have abandoned it in favor of Earthbound episodes of late.

 

[WingedThing]

Re: Re: If it's a setup for the new series:

Originally posted by CynVision
I just wish they wouldn't try rewriting the foundation of the series in one episode, in two speculative conversations.

Ok, I totally agree that "downtime" episodes can be lots of fun, but this didn't feel like a downtime episode for the exact reason you stated--they were trying to rewrite history.,,and didn't give it dialog.

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by Highlander II
And, IMO, there was 'too much' Jonas. He was doing stuff that any of the others could have done. I mean, Jack could sit and talk to someone w/o getting frustrated - it seemed to be a lot of 'gee, we need ppl to know more about Jonas, so he can sit and talk to himself'

less Jonas - more of the rest of the gang --

I don't hate Jonas, but please don't stick him in my face ---
the other eps of the season were better --

When was Jonas appointed the "official spokesman" for SG1? I thought it was really strange to have him suddenly taking over the role of team communicator. Of course, I'd expect Daniel to assume that function, but why should I accept Jonas in that role? It seemed a contrivance of the writers in their effort to replace Daniel on the team. A more natural approach would have been to have Jack or Sam tell Jonas to use what he had learned from Daniel's notes and attempt to communicate with their recently thawed out guest.

 

[webmouse]

Re: OK, now I have questions...

Originally posted by bummer
Did it not seem odd that they would haul poor ol' Jack through the Stargate when he was at death's door? Why couldn't they have brought the symbiote to him??

I kept expecting them to put the woman back in the deep freeze until the Tok'ra could provide HER with a symbiote. Then between the two of them they could save Jack and she could run off with the Tok'ra. Why bring her into the story only to drop her by the end of the episode?

A blended Jack is too weird to consider out of context, so I'll have to see what the writers do with it.

 

[Legal Beagle]

Originally posted by webmouse
A more natural approach would have been to have Jack or Sam tell Jonas to use what he had learned from Daniel's notes and attempt to communicate with their recently thawed out guest.

Maybe that scene just occurred off-screen. I agree that would have made more sense.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Does anyone else find it strange that, though one of Stargate Command's principal directives is to find advanced technology, they have never made any attempt to bring back a sarcophagus?

Granted, there's a downside, but you'd think it would be one of the first items they'd want to study in the hopes of developing a similar system without the addictive properties. Like, after 'Need', maybe they could've worked with their new ally, Shyla, on it for their mutual benefit?

I mean, they've been busy backwards engineering the death glider. And there again, they'd left that rotting in a field for long enough before someone had the bright idea that, hey there's that old death glider we crashed out there somewhere. Why don't we do something with it?

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by Hatshepsut
Does anyone else find it strange that, though one of Stargate Command's principal directives is to find advanced technology, they have never made any attempt to bring back a sarcophagus?
--

I've wondered about that, too, but I think that might give the writers too many easy ways out. I recall that in "Dr. Who" the robot dog K-9 and the sonic screwdriver became standard solutions to every crisis and eventually both were removed from the show. The sarcophagus might pose a similar trap for the writers -- same reason that SG1 can't hang onto a mothership

 

[skoon]

or "beem me up Scottie". On Enterprise they don't quite trust the transporter beem yet but later on it's a standard resuing tool...when it works.

 

[skydiver]

they said they did have intel on a sarc, but that it was too closely guarded to be worth it. teh goauld tend to guard them closely and hammond has obviously decried that it's not worth losing lives over.

and there is the fact that if they did have a sarc, that'd sorta ruin the suspense wouldnt it??? ooh, sam, you fell off a cliff and jack can't hang on long enough to pull you up...well just fall and we'll scoop up your body and sarc ya

 

[Hatshepsut]

Originally posted by webmouse
I've wondered about that, too, but I think that might give the writers too many easy ways out.

Oh sure, I realize that, but it shouldn't pose a problem for an imaginative scriptwriter - just a lazy one.

They managed to make a whole episode out of the backwards engineered death glider after all.

There's lots of scope for unknown as well as known side-effects - certainly enough for them to use it only as a last resort.

It just doesn't seem plausible that they wouldn't at least *try* to get hold of one. Come to that, I'm sure Shyla would've been happy to negotiate with Daniel for the loan of hers

Still, they've included Quinn in S.G. -1, so I suppose I shouldn't be all that surprised.



Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
--

 

[CynVision]

Originally posted by Hatshepsut
Does anyone else find it strange that, though one of Stargate Command's principal directives is to find advanced technology, they have never made any attempt to bring back a sarcophagus?

Shhhh.... I'm playing with this idea for a "10 years beyond present day" fic idea.

It's odd that no one mentions the zats. Those little do-dads could be equally mis-used by writers.

The SGC had Hathor's sarc delivered to its door, so to speak. You think they'd have studied it then. But in any scene it's in, nobody at all is looking it over. By the end of the ep it was blown up. I think this was a message from the writer/producers back in season one that the Tau'ri would never hang on to tech for very long. The X300 series is the developing exception.

 

[skoon]

just a thought, remembering back to my Archeology class a year ago or so, I think didn't Homo sapian & Homo...erectus or something lived at the same time, maybe the Ancients were the more advanced ones but died out somehow & modern day humans are from the other? so evolved later? & then really arn't the same line as the Ancients (thus giving Thor credit for calling us the 5th race & not the decendants of the Ancients). Just a though, haven't see the ep yet...

 

[CynVision]

Originally posted by skoon
I think didn't Homo sapian & Homo...erectus or something lived at the same time, maybe the Ancients were the more advanced ones but died out somehow & modern day humans are from the other? so evolved later? & then really arn't the same line as the Ancients (thus giving Thor credit for calling us the 5th race & not the decendants of the Ancients).

Yah. There is the pesky problem that we can't go out and review the entire evolutionary chain any time we please. Not enough of the individuals fell into snow cravasses or died in lake beds or died in desert caves and were mumified for conveient study. I like the idea. It would explain how some brain chemistry was off, why she was a unaffected by a virus that was pandemic to us, and maybe why speech wasn't her prime method of communication (unless that was all because her brain was iced and she was relearning). And pulls in with a bit about why some Earth structures seem so much older.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by CynVision
Yah. There is the pesky problem that we can't go out and review the entire evolutionary chain any time we please. Not enough of the individuals fell into snow cravasses or died in lake beds or died in desert caves and were mumified for conveient study. I like the idea. It would explain how some brain chemistry was off, why she was a unaffected by a virus that was pandemic to us, and maybe why speech wasn't her prime method of communication (unless that was all because her brain was iced and she was relearning). And pulls in with a bit about why some Earth structures seem so much older.

The 'SFX' magazine review of this episode, considers the possibility that maybe she isn't from the past, but from the future, and travelled back in the history of the Earth using a time machine of some kind.

What's to stop the advanced humans of our future meddling with time and Ayiana accidently ending up marooned in our past?

It does fit the facts better that the theory that SG-1 came up with. That makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by spookypumpkin
love the simpsons gag!!

What about the Jack quote "Darwin would be crushed!"

Originally posted by Hatshepsut
Does anyone else find it strange that, though one of Stargate Command's principal directives is to find advanced technology, they have never made any attempt to bring back a sarcophagus?

Originally posted by webmouse
I recall that in "Dr. Who" the robot dog K-9 and the sonic screwdriver became standard solutions to every crisis and eventually both were removed from the show. The sarcophagus might pose a similar trap for the writers.

I'd agree with that reason, but someone also said that a Sarcophagus is very precious to a Gou'ald, it is the first thing they take with them when the Mothership is destroyed, so you would really need to kill a Gou'ald to get hold of one, and they haven't done that many times.

Originally posted by webmouse
When was Jonas appointed the "official spokesman" for SG1? I thought it was really strange to have him suddenly taking over the role of team communicator.

That never bothered me, we know that he speaks perfect English after a very short time, so has an aptitude for languages, as well as a photographic memory. Teal'c still speaks in a very stilted way even after 6 years on Earth.

Originally posted by CynVision
Jack's not afraid of death. No. But somehow his patriotism kicked in. The idea of doing something heroic rather than be taken down by some variant of encephalitis must have crossed his mind. Jack's going down as a hero, even if they take his free will from him and make him a Tok'ra operative.

Yes, Jack is a true professional here, isn't he!

Originally posted by WingedThing
As for the poster who thought that the episode was borrowed from the X-files "Ice" episode, you should know that "Ice" borrowed heavily (of not totally with a reference) from John W. Campbell Jr.'s "Who Goes There?"

And John Carpenter's 'The Thing', and 'Doctor Who's 'Seeds of Death', and....

Originally posted by Bizarro7
If this is the intro for a spin-off series, it's rather derivative.

What's new?

Originally posted by CynVision
I don't remember them talking brain waves in Fifth Race. It's rewriting show cannon for the story to take a new direction. And that stinks.

I think that's exactly what is happening here, in order to set the scene for a new series. 'Star Trek' have done it, both with 'Enterprise' and the 'Data/Lore' backstory, Superhero Comic books have a long history of doing it. It even has a name "Retconning: The act of retroactively adjusting continuity."

Originally posted by Falcon Horus
And I think they're was some shipping between Jonas and Aiyana. Not in so many words but he liked her.

Definately agree.

Originally posted by Falcon Horus
I think that "Frozen" had more potential if they hadn't let Aiyana die.

Couldn't agree more. On top of that, wouldn't this relationship be exactly what is needed to make Jonas more interesting. He just seems to wander around smiling and discussing the weather forecasts!

 

[Tabitha]

The concept of Ayiana being from the future was something that occurred to me right away, and I kept waiting for someone to come up with the idea. I mean, these people have travelled in time themselves at least once - wouldn't the discovery of an advanced human near a stargate make this possibility one of the more obvious explanations?
The time travel option makes a lot more sense that the evolutionary confusion.

Another thing - was this episode sponsored by The North Face or something?

I still can't believe that the writers let this woman die. Am I right in thinking that at no point did they conclusively decide that she was an ancient, that they could turn it all around later and change their minds about this idea?
It just seems wrong that the Ancients look like humans.

The dome structre remind me of that planet from "Beneath the Surface" - for a minute I thought the team were back there.

Jonas taking the position of Daniel in this episode did bother me a little, but I looked at it from the point of view that perhaps he was trying to integrate himself into the team as best he could. The one thing that bothered me was when he said "Didn't humans evolve on this planet x years ago?". Has he been doing nothing but reading since he got to earth? He must never leave his quarters. Photographic memory would go some way in explaining this I suppose.

 

[Dave]

Tabitha -- Is the North Face designer clothing? Because that is funny

I forgot to say how bad all that fake snow was. The fake snow was what bothered me the most.

 

[Tabitha]

All those fleece jumpers (and seemingly every item underneath) were all North Face ones. When the logo was in close up they had blurred it a little, but it was obvious who the manufacturer was.

Ah, the fake snow didn't bother me that much - but I was amused at the idea of people zooming about on snowmobiles indoors

 

[skoon]

If I remember correctly, the dome is a biodome at the QE Park in Vancouver, lot's of trees & flowers, etc. all round so that fack snow must have been just someone playing around with a paint program or somethin...cut & past the dome onto a white background? ...I like my evolutionary theory beter than time travel, only for the fact that we've never founf the elusive "missing link" & the fact that we've seen the whole time travel thing, yawn, been there done that... Did they promise to let us meet an Ancient? & I was thinking on it earlier, didn't they mention that we've met a Ferling already too...do we KNOW what or who Lanaya is or where she's from? Ferling gone bad? & what is Oma de"glolwy"sala?

 

[Leyla]

I wanna simply say that I liked the episode - the theory behind the woman fanscinated me (I had to do a reality check part way through, to realise that it was TV, not really million yr old woman). I also loved the Jack quote "Doh! I forgot to tape the Simpsons! It's important to me." I love him! He's so down to earth!!

 

[Hatshepsut]

Originally posted by Dave
I'd agree with that reason, but someone also said that a Sarcophagus is very precious to a Gou'ald, it is the first thing they take with them when the Mothership is destroyed, so you would really need to kill a Gou'ald to get hold of one, and they haven't done that many times.

They only have to do it once, Dave...

In any case, at least two sarcophagi have already passed through their hands.

i) Hathor's, which was accidentally destroyed, I believe, so fair enough to have lost that one.

ii) Shyla's, which was the one I had in mind. Now granted, misuse had screwed up Daniel's mind, but so would misuse of heroin. Used in a correct medicinal way, both are extrememly efficacious.

Logically, therefore, if S.G.-1 were fulfilling its mandate of finding advanced technology, they should have arranged a trade agreement of swapping Shyla's sarcophagus, which she doesn't have an on-going use for, with mining equipment or whatever which she does need. And given S.G.-1's mandate to retrieve such technology, it seems extremely bizarre that they keep ignoring them.

The sarcophagus could then be investigated at leisure with a view to isolating the active ingredient, as it were, and neutralizing the addictive properties. I'm surprised Kinsey hasn't been on their necks to get one for him personally. :evil:

I'm also wondering what Apophis was doing for a sarcophagus after 'Serpent's Lair'. Which kind of begs the question, where did all these sarcophagi come from in the first place, and why hasn't S.G.-1 (probably at the insistence of Kinsey) been sent of on a mission to find the Acme Sarcophagus Company's H.Q.?

Granted, having sarcophagus technology would make things a bit too easy for the writers (if they chose to be lazy... ho-hum ) and would put Doc. Fraiser out of a job, but surely they can think of plenty of ways in which sarcophagus use had to be limited.

Best wishes,
Hatshepsut :wave:
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