Iris and New Wormholes

[imported_Velocity]

Here's the deal. When a wormhole is detected on the SGC's side, they close the Iris. That's the problem. If the Iris is closed, should it not be disintegrated when that surge of energy (which disintegrates EVERYTHING in it's path) launches forth?

My theory is that the gate is protected in some way from this surge of energy, and being connected to the gate, the Iris is also immune... but that is crazy thinking. Someone please set this all straight!

 

[PTeppic]

It seems (using "A Hundred Days" as an example) that the wormhole vortex only bursts forth if there is a small gap in front of the gate.

The gate can still engage, but with no vortex. If the gap is bigger, or the material is not solid, then it bursts out and destroys everything.

[Or put another way, they didn't think it through 100% when they wrote it! ]

 

[webmouse]

My teenage son recently pointed out the same problem -- not only about the iris, but also any cover stone, rubble, etc. covering the gate. Shouldn't the energy surge blast through all such covers?

I agree that the writers hadn't thought this one all the way through -- kind of like Daniel's glasses which he either needs or does not need depending on the situation . . .

 

[PTeppic]

The coverstone thing is possibly one step closer to better thought out?

As a Stargate safety feature, it will not engage if there is anything already within the area of the event horizon, since it would be destroyed. Therefore, by burying a gate and having rubble within the EH, this prevents the gate working. Just a coverstone would only work if it was a very snug fit. Again, this has to be read between the lines from episodes such as "A Hundred Days" and others.

 

[Dr.Jackson]

However, how does this explain the 'fossil' in the movie?
The gate was buried but an Anubis Guard (I think) was transported into the stone sometime after, thus creating the fossil.

This means the gate could activate, and didn't destroy the ground underneath in the vortex.

Or is this just something that has been changed for the series?

 

[Wingless Flyer]

I believe the coverstones (like Jackson's blockade he placed on the Abydos Stargate after the first team returned to Earth) stopped a wormhole from opening at all (as seen in one episode, can't remember which, where they moved the Iris a few millimetres toward the gate so a wormhole could not be established) It stopped any wormhole from activating at all...

The 'Unstable vortex of nutrenos' (sp?) seems to be quite destructive if aloud to form. But we have only seen it kill people, which arn't to much of a hard surface to hit Of course if I am mistaken lease correct me. But the thing I am not sure off is that the vortex would in one instance seem to be needed for the event horizon to form, but then not be needed, which would mean they could do away with the risk of having it extend into the gate room by simply closing the Iris every time it was activated. Sounds like a writing error to me...

 

[PTeppic]

A few thoughts:
a) I don't recall them saying that the "fossil" was put there through the gate - he was simply killed during thr revolt and buried under the gate that has erstwhile been associated with his power and tyranny

b) iris - it is only 3 micrometers away from the EH, so presumably to stop the gate connecting you must actually put something IN the EH

c) which means, why don't the SGC just have a great big metal plunger coming out from the back wall that sits in the middle of the gate to prevent any incoming wormholes

d) answering myself: it doesn't help for the cases where 1) there are unscheduled "valid" events (and there have been at least three I can think of), or 2) it doesn't help when they get "valid" travel, but have to take action against "tail-gaters" e.g. "Children of the Gods" or "The Other Side" etc. [Also, it is visually a big wuss - since nothing happens. The dialling protocol from the far end says 'oops - gate won't engage' but nothing would happen at all in the SGC. A far cry from the current 'incoming wormhole, shut the iris, engages, thud thud thud of incoming bad guys! Much more interesting.]

e) they don't need the EH to form to get a wormhole - e.g. "Hundred Days". Also, there seems to be some interesting technical reason for the vortex, which they haven't explained fully, since really advanced dialling methods (e.g. Nox, Asgard?, and Cassandra's device in "1969") don't result in a vortex!

 

[Dr.Jackson]

Sorry, I was really just speculating as to the fossil. From the position it's in, it looks like it was moving when it was encased in rock, like it was walking or running, this would support my theory of it coming through the gate after it was buried.
Also the fact it still has it's staff weapon in its hand. Wouldn't they have taken that away if they intentionally buried the Anubis Guard?

Just a thought.

 

[PTeppic]

We know that the Egyptians buried their dead with goods to take them to the afterlife. Maybe they thought that this enemy would need the staff to defend himself in the underworld?

It is also the film, which (as is discussed elsewhere) the SG-1 series at times takes a slight tangent away from in terms of continuity and technical content.

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by PTeppic
It is also the film, which (as is discussed elsewhere) the SG-1 series at times takes a slight tangent away from in terms of continuity and technical content.

TV writers do not allow too much of a feature film to hamper their creativity, and film writers are not much bothered by what happened in the TV series. Both sets of writers are counting on us to chant the mantra "Entertainment Value" and ignor all those little inconsistencies.

 

[Dr.Jackson]

I may very well stand corrected then.

 

[Caity]

Gotta remember it's just a TV show... gotta remember it's just a TV show... Gotta remember it's a bloody good TV show!

Ahh, what the hell...

So I was reading up on wormhole theory... (coz, I'm weird like that)... so I figured out why it disintergrates anything in it's path.
Anti-matter... although they have speculated on exotic matter... which so far has remained resolutely nothing but mathematical calculation... Well, apart from Neutrinos... but the less I say about them the better.

Then of course... the show automatically proves that space-time is curved... which by all calculation is unlikely... seeing as everything continues to move away... and it seems to be speeding up... but that can be explained by the 3 fold theory (can't remember the real name). Can't remember any exact detail, if anyone has the time to explain that one.

Another niggle... when they step through the stargate you get to see the inside one the wormhole... which is hilarious!! They keep saying that their body turns into a type of particle stream... so if their bodies aren't intact... how can they see??

I think that the iris was a bit of a feux pas... the writers obviously never thought that one through. Same goes for 'Exodus' when they openned the stargate to the blackhole world... I mean they openned it... how can the gravity translate in that direction... I thought they made a point of this in Watergate...??

Hyperdrive... do they Warp the space or do they slice through it like a wormhole??

Teal'cs larvae Goa'uld... is it going to stay an infant forever... it doesn't take that long in the other Jaffa.

Just some of the niggles I needed to get out of my system.

Cheers for listening. :rolly2:

Bye bye, :wave:

Caity xx

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Caity
So I was reading up on wormhole theory... (coz, I'm weird like that)... so I figured out why it disintergrates anything in it's path.
Anti-matter...

I don't think that would work - it wouldn't just disintegrate, it would cause an explosion of MASSIVE integrity - it is a much more pure form of energy release than nuclear. You're talking pure E=mc2 stuff - so REALLY big bangs for very small amounts of antimatter

Then of course... the show automatically proves that space-time is curved...

How?

Another niggle... when they step through the stargate you get to see the inside one the wormhole... which is hilarious!! They keep saying that their body turns into a type of particle stream... so if their bodies aren't intact... how can they see??

Good point, noted elsewhere. Its only a TV show, it's only a TV show...

I think that the iris was a bit of a feux pas... the writers obviously never thought that one through. Same goes for 'Exodus' when they openned the stargate to the blackhole world... I mean they openned it... how can the gravity translate in that direction... I thought they made a point of this in Watergate...??

Spolier space is probably recommended for episodes as late as this. Any energy can travel both ways in the wormholes - hence their abilities to use radios and controls MALPs two-way. Only matter is limited to one-way. Otherwise the whole "Matter of Time" thing wouldn't have worked.

Hyperdrive... do they Warp the space or do they slice through it like a wormhole??

Good question - we don't really know much about it -but(!) if speed of any can affect the outcome then it looks more like "through".

Teal'cs larvae Goa'uld... is it going to stay an infant forever... it doesn't take that long in the other Jaffa.

They have sort of covered this in a few places. He DID get a new one in "Bloodlines", and in at least one episode they have clarified that if he doesn't swap it for a new one in a "few" years (I can't remember the number or phrase) then it will start to take him over. One of the episodes where they are trapped on a habitable planet. This has also been covered in "Crossroads" of course. Why do you say it doesn't take this long in other Jaffa?

[And this will sound horribly pompous but isn't meant: for this many questions, you would have been better to start a new thread, rather than hijack one just about the wormhole and iris.]

 

[Caity]

A: - I'm not a scientist. And I'm only 16... what do you expect... an equation??

B: - I don't use this board very often... and it was sort of in the right area.

C: - Of course it proves the curved space theory... wormhole theory can only be applied in curved space.

D: - The black hole thing was something brought up by one of the writers (I think)... on a DVD commentary from the episode.

E: - The Teal'c question was a sort of momentary tangent that I couldn't be bothered to start a new thread over.

F: - The reason I don't have a fall grasp of all the subjects I posted about is because everytime I ask for clarification I don't get any. Or if I do, they use terms that I don't understand in a way I don't understand... I've asked the 3 fold space question about 10 times on however many boards.

Bye bye, :wave:

Caity xx

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by PTeppic
He DID get a new one in "Bloodlines", and in at least one episode they have clarified that if he doesn't swap it for a new one in a "few" years (I can't remember the number or phrase) then it will start to take him over. One of the episodes where they are trapped on a habitable planet. This has also been covered in "Crossroads" of course. Why do you say it doesn't take this long in other Jaffa?

As I recall Jaffa can not be blended and can not serve as hosts (see "The First Ones"). T'ealc's problem isn't that Junior is going to take him over, but will mature to the point where it will need a proper host with which to blend. No doubt, Junior will leap from its pouch into the nearest human -- probably Jack who will not be a happy camper

 

[PTeppic]

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one...

The symbiote will mature at some point. If it can't find another person to be the host it won't want to die, so it will take over the Jaffa. I was fairly sure this was covered in "Bloodlines" and "Crossroads". Will have to watch them again - any excuse...


Caity - my own astro-physics is somewhat sketchy, but in this subgroup saying "wormholes prove curved space" is a bit too vague. Like saying having a sun proves the planet goes round it...

But, going back to wormholes, (and having checked a reference) curved space is ONE way of explaining wormholes. But this does not prove the reverse, since other explanations may exist.

 

[PTeppic]

okay, almost 3 hours later and five episodes on DVD at x2 speed, and I FINALLY found the reason my memory was shrieking "evidence" at me. [I just hate being wrong... but I was on the verge of having to admit defeat... ]

The following quote is from Teal'c himself, in the back of a white military panel van, on the way out of the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, just before an arranged diversion by a certain Lt. Hammond:
  "If I remain on this planet, I will eventually be taken over by my mature symbiote."

Knew I had seen it somewhere, I just had to get through "Prisoners", "Bloodlines", "Crossroads" and "First Ones" first...

 

[Caity]

The reason I say curved space is because on the website it has a very rudamentary (sp?) diagram of a wormhole based in curved space... there is very little reason why they would have that up there if it was based on a different theory.

But if you want to be right... don't let me get in the way.

Bye bye, :wave:

Caity xx

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by PTeppic
okay, almost 3 hours later and five episodes on DVD at x2 speed, and I FINALLY found the reason my memory was shrieking "evidence" at me. [I just hate being wrong... but I was on the verge of having to admit defeat... ]

The following quote is from Teal'c himself, in the back of a white military panel van, on the way out of the Cheyenne Mountain Complex, just before an arranged diversion by a certain Lt. Hammond:
  "If I remain on this planet, I will eventually be taken over by my mature symbiote."

Knew I had seen it somewhere, I just had to get through "Prisoners", "Bloodlines", "Crossroads" and "First Ones" first...

At present I don't have the ability to review all previous eps, but I have seen "First Ones" recently and the reason T'ealc is allowed to disarm and bind the entire search team is because Sam says T'ealc is the only they can trust under the circumstances, that he and he alone could not have been infested by the symbiotes swimming in the stream.

So, either the writers are not nearly as careful at checking previous scripts as you are (nothing new there, of course -- the fans always remember details that the writers forgot years ago) or the implication is that T'ealc already has a symbiote and therefore can not play host to another (could get crowded in there )

Is this detail addressed specifically in the eps you reviewed?

 

[PTeppic]

Ah - that was your confusion:

As far as we know, as you highlighted, no jaffa or full host can have two symbiotes, either larval or adult, though it should not interfere with his ability or otherwise to keep the "existing" larval form if it turns to an adult.