Is Stargate the ultimate atheist sci-fi universe ?

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Pheew... I'm actually lazy to write an entire thread, but I'll make an effort.
You see, it dwelves with fake gods, usurpers, tyrants and people who are lurred.
I'm still amazed that this show still managed to be shown in the USA, given the underlying message sponsored. You know, it's easy to ask ourselves what forbids us from thinking that the same idea could be applied to the contemporary gods, if Allah and things like that are Goa'ulds or pure invention created to fill the gaps leaved by other gods who left Earth.
Then we could wonder if we might see one day gothic spacecathedrals instead of pyramids (note that I'm not a big fan of Battlefleet Gothic at all... seriously).
Maybe we could also wonder if the Goa'uld called Jesus was reanimated in a sarcophagus ?
Who knows...

 

[Rowan]

Questions

Very good question.

Just as a fast thought, probably one of the reasons it first got off the ground is it's SF. And with SF you can pretty well get away at poking holes at the accepted norm. The original Star Trek, for an example.

Gate stays away from the Judeo-Christian ethic [except for for the ep 'Demons' and portraying Sokar as the Devil] on the whole. Probably the main reason it hasn't come under fire.

...that we know of.

Comments anyone?

Rowan

 

[summershake]

I have read fanfics dealing with this...maybe fans of the show wouldn't even have issues with that - meaning dealing with *the* God/Allah/Whatever many people believe in now-a-days.
I don't know, I for one wouldn't anyway - it's still a sci-fi show for me.
And I have to agree with Rowan. They invented Sokar, Ne'tu - dealing with what we call Devil and Hell and got away with it, aswell as with dealing with ancient gods and godesses.

I don't know what reaction they would get if they started to show us something about modern religion, a planet called 'Eden', or something like that.

I can remember that Daniel said in 'Maternal Instinct' -when he met the monk on Kheb- that modern Buddhism may be related to Oma Desala. Did they get any reaction on that one? I have no idea, but I don't think so.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Originally posted by summershake
And I have to agree with Rowan. They invented Sokar, Ne'tu - dealing with what we call Devil and Hell and got away with it, aswell as with dealing with ancient gods and godesses.

Well, I think taht they turned Entu into being just some post industrial planet which now served as some sort of prison (a bit like Fiorina 161 ).
There's not much mysticism in that, nor in Sokar who is basically the lord of the planet and just another main vilain.
Booh.

I don't know what reaction they would get if they started to show us something about modern religion, a planet called 'Eden', or something like that.

I don't know. Maybe there would be a planet called Promised Land colonized by the Jews, no ?

I can remember that Daniel said in 'Maternal Instinct' -when he met the monk on Kheb- that modern Buddhism may be related to Oma Desala. Did they get any reaction on that one? I have no idea, but I don't think so.

That's a good catch. They probably never noticed or didn't care. After all it's just an opinion brought through sci-fi. Some may even take it as grand guignolesque.

 

[CynVision]

The show is meant to play in so many places it's a tad sanitized. We don't even get any hint of holidays. At least in the X-files we got some of that. But Stargate is not the same show and is trying to be translatable to other cultures where it wouldn't make sense. Despite the fact they're the US Air Force. Duh.

A few times we get O'Neill bleating "God" in some desparate situations. I'm at least sure he's been to Sunday School... but we may never see him in Church.

 

[summershake]

Originally posted by CynVision
A few times we get O'Neill bleating "God" in some desparate situations. I'm at least sure he's been to Sunday School... but we may never see him in Church.

Except for the 'Red Sky' epi...

 

[PTeppic]

As far as I have seen, they have only "revealed" the origins behind extinct religions. In contrast, when they implied Buddhism it was with respect, and even then tended more towards "mother nature". In "Demons", they avoided the concepts of the Christianity, and headed straight for the "safer" satan role...

All togther a safe, multi-national, multi-ethnic audience-tolerant fodder...

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

But it still would be funny to learn that Jesus was sarcophagused !

 

[Dr.Jackson]

This thread brings up an interesting theoretical theological issue. I don't know how much research into mythology, especially Sumerian, the writers did. Having done an amount of research into this particular field of mythology I have uncovered a few startling 'facts'.

The Sumerian god Enki was the source of all secret and magical knowledge of life and immortality. The myths say that he could return the dead back to life. Worryingly, exactly the qualities attributed to the serpent in the garden of Eden. Does this mean he was a Goa'uld?
The thing with using ancient mythology is that you can use an abuse it as necessary in sci-fi.

And if Jesus, as part of the SG universe, were an alien, he'd have been a Tok'Ra, as he was benevolent.

 

[Sergeant Mick]

While it brings up some fascinating ideas and concepts about the history of human civilisation, at the end of the day it's just a TV show written by people just like us for excellent entertainment... there is no religious based threat within!

 

[angelle myst]

Originally posted by Sergeant Mick
While it brings up some fascinating ideas and concepts about the history of human civilisation, at the end of the day it's just a TV show written by people just like us for excellent entertainment... there is no religious based threat within!

Not religion based threat but...I disagree that its just a tv show, maybe superficially yes, but arent all shows written on some other level? For example - you watch Buffy and you see demons etc, but its all metaphorical for life's troubles (a very basic description but you get the point). You watch the X-Files and you see aliens (well Mulder does ) but there are undertones of religion and God all over the place.

Stargate is a tv show written for entertainment purposes, but i find it hard to believe that the writers themselves dont bring something else to it. Or maybe thats just it, maybe Stargate is different in that respect because it doesnt have one main writing/directing god like Buffy (Joss Whedon) and the X-Files (Chris Carter)? I'm not sure about the ins and out of the Stargate writing/directing staff but i did get the impression that it was always usually a team effort.

xxx

 

[summershake]

Originally posted by Sammy O'Neill
Stargate is a tv show written for entertainment purposes, but i find it hard to believe that the writers themselves dont bring something else to it. Or maybe thats just it, maybe Stargate is different in that respect because it doesnt have one main writing/directing god like Buffy (Joss Whedon) and the X-Files (Chris Carter)? I'm not sure about the ins and out of the Stargate writing/directing staff but i did get the impression that it was always usually a team effort.
xxx

Yeah, they have several people who are writing for this show since its very beginning or have come aboard shortly after and have stayed since.
But there are many folks who just write one/two/three or ten episodes.
Some epis are team efforts aswell.
It's the same with the directors. In Stargate we don't have *one* director, but several, some who direct many episodes, some who direct one/two/three or ten.

But I think especially Brad Wright's, Joe Mallozzi's, Paul Mullie's, Robert C. Cooper's and Peter DeLuise's work lead the show and the story arcs where they want them to be. I'd say (IMHO) they're the king-pins.

What makes Stargate more real than other Sci-Fi shows - for me - is the usual excellent writing, the fact the events take place now-a-days and not in the future, and the wonderful premise of basing the whole concept on ancient mythology --- Earth's where it started and this is where it'll end....

 

[Falcon Horus]

I know that Senator Kinsey is always the one who believes in God the most. He once said "One nation under one God!", but what if his God is a Goa'uld as well?

I'm walking around with the idea of writing a fanfic story about our "God/Allah" whatever you wanna call him.

The things I know about mythology is that all the gods (Egyptian, Summerian and from other cultures) have portraits and ours hasn't. Don't you think that's weird?

If they would ever want to do something with Eden, God or Jesus then I won't mind at all. If Osiris was an alien than I'm sure that Jesus and his old man were aliens too!

Falcon Horus

 

[RaTY]

They could so easily turn Jesus into an alien its not funny.
Hell, with a bit of work, they could turn Jesus into Anubis.

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Falcon Horus
I know that Senator Kinsey is always the one who believes in God the most. He once said "One nation under one God!", but what if his God is a Goa'uld as well?

In a way the writers are simply reflecting the beliefs, practices and language of some of the real-life senators - though hopefully extrapolated slightly beyond sensible limits . I'm not sure we ever quite hear which state Kinsey represents, but I'm sure you Americans amongst us would be able to confirm which are the so-called "Bible-belt", and hence, perhaps in a cliched way, guess which he's from.

 

[CynVision]

Originally posted by PTeppic
In a way the writers are simply reflecting the beliefs, practices and language of some of the real-life senators - though hopefully extrapolated slightly beyond sensible limits . I'm not sure we ever quite hear which state Kinsey represents, but I'm sure you Americans amongst us would be able to confirm which are the so-called "Bible-belt", and hence, perhaps in a cliched way, guess which he's from.

It may not be as cliched as you'd think. There is the Christan group here in the states that totally believes God created man as set down in the Bible and has no acceptance of evolution. They won't abide the idea that man came from ape. And there's so many holes in the evolutional record that science has discovered they make the belief stick.

If anything, events and theory presented in Frozen of a Ancient guided or planned evolution touches on this "God created man" theme. Don't know if the writers meant to do it, but it could be taken that way.

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by CynVision
It may not be as cliched as you'd think. There is the Christan group here in the states that totally believes God created man as set down in the Bible and has no acceptance of evolution. They won't abide the idea that man came from ape. And there's so many holes in the evolutional record that science has discovered they make the belief stick.

They have them in this country too... One of my previous managers was from the "the Earth is c. 4000 years old because it says so in the Bible" group. Fair do's - each to their own. I've also been, out of curiousity, to a couple of the biblical geology lectures, proving the flood, disproving C-14 dating, explaining the dinosaurs etc. Interesting, but I left wanting to debate every single point...

If anything, events and theory presented in Frozen of a Ancient guided or planned evolution touches on this "God created man" theme. Don't know if the writers meant to do it, but it could be taken that way.

I'l look forward to it when I get to see S6...

 

[jeane]

what the hell...

:evil:

This tread is about religion, just it. I know I will be censured but I need to say this.


I hate religions, religions make things like september eleven, but who says that believe in God is something to stupid people? It's totally different to have a religion and to believe in God.

So Jesus can never be a Goa'uld because he was good, He teached good things and He died for love us. This is the diffrence between God and Religion.

Religion is man oppressing man. Is just what the Allah people do over the world. This religion particulary is dangerous, see what they teach! The radicals ones NEVER are punnished and the true is that they are majority! I know that there are good people there but MOST OF THEM love to kill in the name of Allah, they recently killed 17 girls in a school that got fire in Arabia. The children couldn't be rescued because wasn't properly attaired! That's God's thing?

I think that the message from Stargate is: The true God don't need to oppress people. People and falses gods do, some oppress in the name of god, some opress in the name of their country or their government but they all opress.

 

[summershake]

I will not censor this post because this is your opinion and you should have the right to say it.

But I have to add that I think you make a big mistake if you blame a religion in general...everyone is free to believe in whatever they choose to.
It can get dangerous if a state or the leaders interfere with the religion of this country. We have seen what radicals can do.

 

[PTeppic]

Jeane,

Religion IS the belief in a overwhelming superhuman power or being(s), and even if part of a "known" organisation this is still personal and powerful to the individual.

I think the middle part of your posting contains exactly the sort of assumption, prejudice and misinformation that you are assigning to others. There are examples from ALL religions, from history and in todays society, where death is condoned or lives not protected, in the face of stated belief of those involved. The "fanatics" from any group should not be compared to the majority as you appear to be doing.

However, I agree with your underlying principle that religion MUST be separated from politics, even if the latter is incorrectly attributed to the former. Three of the largest religions are founded on similar principles, and indeed some of the same texts - including peace and compassion for one another - yet these three have had some of the bloodiest conflicts in history. Needless to say, this is generally NOT lead by the best intentions of the faith, but by that most human of needs (greeds?), for land. :evil:

PS. I most certainly DON'T want this to degenerate into a religous "mine's bigger/better/more generous/gracious than your's" kind of discussion . I propose we stick to SG-1 in this thread, and IF anyone really wants to go down the other route, they start a new thread somewhere more appropriate... :kisses: