The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005)

[afroelf]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I am still of the view that you cannot do Narnia any justice without The Magicians Nephew and the Last Battle. They are the stories that give context to the series and place it within a narrative. Just doing the middle ones makes it very light weight and formless. It just turns into another trilogy of slightly wierd characters.
Maybe I am a purist, but to me it is like trying to do the LoTR without Frodo, or turning Aragorn into a republican.
Frankly I think the wold fiming of Narnia has just been a blatent attempt at cherry picking that does no justice whatsoever to the series and is as bad as Disney's insistance on presenting Pooh Bear with its own cartoons and not the original artwork.
I also have no idea how they will present the themes in VoTDT (the utter east and all that) and suspect they will just slash and burn instead of edit.

 

[Scifi fan]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I think they should do the Magician's Nephew and the Last Battle, especially the Last Battle.

Maybe I am a purist, but to me it is like trying to do the LoTR without Frodo, or turning Aragorn into a republican.

Aragorn is a democrat???

 

[Michael01]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Aragorn is a democrat???

Well, at least he's looking out for the little guy.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

The Magician's Nephew always felt like an afterthought to me, although it does have some very good things in it. If it was essential to the narrative, I think Lewis would have written it earlier.

The Last Battle would surely come across as too preachy for many adults, and possibly depressing and confusing for a lot of children. I find it hard to imagine that any studio would take on such a project.

I just watched Prince Caspian for the second time the other night. I asked for (and received) it for Christmas, so there will undoubtedly be further viewings. I really like it -- not quite as much as TLTWTW, but it's a fairly close call.

Bring on The Voyage of the Dawn Treader! I agree with pyan that it's one of the most filmable. And although not usually a fan of cute talking animals, I do love Reepicheep. How can any movie that features an ocean adventure and the valiant mouse be anything less than entertaining?

 

[HareBrain]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

The Magican's Nephew was and is my favourite - I think Lewis is much more inventive in it than in anything else. I'd love to see a well-done Jadis and Charn.

I've just realised that throughout the series, I tend to prefer the bits that don't take place in the land of Narnia: the whole of VotDT; the northern lands in Silver Chair; the Calormene bits and the desert in Horse and His Boy; most of the Magician's Nephew. Lewis's imagination seemes to flow a lot more freely when he's not constrained by his perfect kingdom.

I wish Pauline Baynes could have drawn an animated version of all seven books, though.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

... the northern lands in Silver Chair; the Calormene bits and the desert in Horse and His Boy ...

I love those books and those settings, too.

And I adore the Baynes illustrations. (Also the pictures she did for Tolkien's Farmer Giles of Ham.)


I'd love to see a well-done Jadis and Charn.

Yes. She's quite terrifying. Although I wonder how they could ever find someone with the sort of presence the part demands. Tilda Swinton makes a very satisfactory White Witch, if you don't think about what she was like in The Magician's Nephew, but I don't know if she could do the "real" Jadis.

 

[afroelf]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I agree with hare Brain - TMN is my favourite too - I love the transformation of Fledge, and I think it would make a fantastic film. TLB would be very difficult to film, but I really cannot see how Narnia can be done justice without it. I will also be interested to see how they depict TSC- I suspect they will not though. TH&HB would make a fantastic film, but does not really fit in with the others. I have been disappointed in the films - not with the content, but with the way that the studios have seen fit to pick and choose what narratives to follow and thus stipping them of context.
I also am firmly of the view that TMN should be read first, and that without it one does not really have a handle on the series so naturally I think that TLTW&TW should have been the second one filmed.

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Good news about the Dawn Treader, its one of my favourites of the series (and one of the best ship names invented, reckons I ). Should make an excellent film, and as for the "utter east" business I'm sure they'll fit that in, have to have an Aslan appearance to wrap things up.

I too really like the Magician's Nephew, its a great story, but I don't think you suffer if you don't read it first (I didn't), so maybe they might make a film of it down the track. Though I can't think of anyone who could do Jadis justice either. I did like Tilda's performance as the wild Boudicca-like creature in battle better than her more restrained White Witch - perhaps if Jadis was taken along those lines? Aside from that, while I love the book, I think you can enjoy the other stories without having read MN (though it does make the whole thing richer).

Unfortunately with films its mostly about the money, they have to pay for themselves and make a profit after all, and films of such quality aren't cheap to make. I guess as long as they can milk the franchise so to speak, someone will keep making movies.

For me the Last Battle is the most problematic story-wise, because its so "Christian Apocalyptic". Most of the themes and symbolism in the other books can be approached and appreciated in a more general fashion, but that one not so much. Anyone not coming at it from that angle, especially a kid, is going to have trouble. I agree with Theresa - depressing and confusing. I have to confess its my least favourite of the books, too, and always was (even though I was a Christian myself for a time).

 

[afroelf]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I think the reason I love TLB is that I love the pictures. Especially that picture of Tash arriving which used to give me the most delicious creeps when I was a kid.
The christian content of the books is obviously going to be an issue, but if they could think about filming The Amber Spyglass et al - although I don't see all 3 being done - I am sure they can sort out a way through the narrative. However I suppose I should remember that the filmmakers are not their for accuracy but for money.
In that sense i am very protective of the narnia books - a bit like a LOTR fan without the cloak.
Of course the big question Procrastinator, is whether Jadis, The White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person? After all, if Jadis is how evil came to Narnia, then there is an argument for them being the same person.

 

[Michael01]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Although I read every book in the series 14 years ago, the only one I remember with clarity is The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. I do recall being fascinated by the non-Narnia settings, though. Maybe it's because I read TLtWtW 3 times since I was kid (not to mention watched the animated movie twice). Anyway, I will have to read them all again.

 

[HareBrain]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I think the reason I love TLB is that I love the pictures. Especially that picture of Tash arriving which used to give me the most delicious creeps when I was a kid.

*shudder* It is a brilliant image. It gave me more than the creeps!

The christian content of the books is obviously going to be an issue, but if they could think about filming The Amber Spyglass et al - although I don't see all 3 being done - I am sure they can sort out a way through the narrative.

My big problem with TLB is that the religious allegory isn't something extra that informs the story, it is the point of the story - in terms of a plot, really, very little happens. To anyone who doesn't believe that after death we go to an afterlife fully intact in body and personality, the ending is monstrous, with Lewis killing off a whole bunch of kids in an unlikely train crash just to make a point. And then the message that an interest in lipstick will deny you the best kind of heaven - eurgh!

Actually, my degree of antipathy to the book worries me a little. Maybe it's something to do with my own interest in lipstick

 

[afroelf]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Yeah, but Susan had turned into a stinky grown up! So she got what she deserved!
On a more serious note, the books are actually quite dated in ters of their social perspectives. And yes, also by CS Lewis's religious ideas, but TLB does bracket the series well in terms of being another world and time perspective that can take place within the lifespan of the children. In that sense it does a good job of creating another space continuem. Actually I always thought it was a very neat ending although my mother used to hate TLB and it was impossible to get her to read it to me although she did read the rest to me so I had to read it myself - probably why I have a soft spot for it and also why it is the only one in which my mind's eye picture of Aslan does not resemble my much loved marmalade cat Orlando!
If you consider how dark other childrens books are- some of the HP series, Phillip Pullman, not to mention most of the cannablistic brothers grimm, I do not think TLB is too bad. Ok, the donkey has a tough time, but I think one can get around it. Anyway, apocaliptic themes have long been part of human narrative so I think we - as adults - tend to overplay it. As for killing the children off in a train accident - as there is never much connecting the children to this world anyway I don't think their removal from it and their ongoing existance in a "new and better" Narnia is too bad at all - after all look at Dickens! He regularly ends his books by killing of his characters (and not a momnet too soon).
anyway, if they filmed Bambi, they can film anything.

 

[Sargeant_Fox]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I'm glad the Narnia film series will continue. I loved The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, and Prince Caspian surpassed my expectations and entertained me even more. It was better written, better acted, better filmed. Everything was better overall: the costumes, the special effects, the battles, the music. I can't wait to see the third movie.

 

[Pyan]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Of course the big question Procrastinator, is whether Jadis, The White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle are the same person?

Jadis and the WW are definitely the same person: in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe she is actually called "Her Imperial Majesty Jadis, Queen of Narnia, Chatelaine of Cair Paravel, Empress of the Lone Islands" on the note left in Mr Tumnus's cave after the visit by Maugrim and the Witch's Secret Police.

Whether the Lady of the Green Kirtle is also Jadis is not so clear, and has led to lots of debate in various forums...

Are the Emerald Witch and the White Witch the same person. - The Dancing Lawn - Official Forums of Narnia Fans

 

[HareBrain]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Whether the Lady of the Green Kirtle is also Jadis is not so clear, and has led to lots of debate in various forums...

Are the Emerald Witch and the White Witch the same person. - The Dancing Lawn - Official Forums of Narnia Fans

Fortunately for my sanity, the debate in that link is very one-sided, and on the side of sensibleness. There's no evidence that they're the same person. Wouldn't Lewis have at least given a strong hint if they were?

 

[kythe]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I've always thought the White Witch and the Lady of the Green Kirtle were different, but that they were from the same world of kings and queens in the room where Digory and Polly awakened Jadis in "The Magician's Nephew".

When Digory and Polly go into the great room in the ruined world, they see "statues" of many kings and queens lined up. When the children ring the bell, they break a spell which awakens Jadis, who was the last queen on the end of the rulers who looked evil.

I've always thought if it was possible to awaken one, it should be possible to awaken the others as well. But they awaken last to first, in backward order. It will take a long time for the fair to good rulers to begin to awaken. Anyhow, the sign invited any stranger to ring the bell. It taunted them, as if expecting visitors to the world who could awaken them. I have always believed the Lady of the Green Kirtle had perhaps been of the same race of rulers as Jadis, and had her own story of how she was awakened which we never hear.

 

[Grimward]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

You have to wonder at Disney pulling out just when they're getting to the best book in the series. I know there are a zillion other factors that go into what movies to make, but if you could do Prince Caspian, how do you NOT do Dawn Treader? Yes, I know they just finished one of their worst quarters ever and their stock's down 8 percent, but Treader should be a slam dunk....

I too like the Magician's Nephew; that book and A Horse and His Boy could stand on their own, the latter less so than the former. I think 20th Century Fox will have a tough time with The Silver Chair, though, unless the Eustace of the movies is a far more compelling character than the Eustace of the books (and how in Lewis' story would he top the Pevensie children as characters?). The BBC series produced Silver Chair, but went no further (I think...).

Swinton would work as Jadis (after all, she already has been!), I think. The battle scenes from Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe capture Jadis quite well. And, finally, I would amend afroelf's statement

anyway, if they filmed Bambi, they can film anything.

to say, "If they filmed Bambi vs. Godzilla, they can film anything." !

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

Last Battle: As a kid it wasn't the "death" of the kids that bothered me near as much as Susan getting left out of "heaven" for being too interested in boys and makeup. I was rather cross with Mr Lewis about that one and probably still am! But really the whole thing seemed so simplistic and black and white, which gave it much more of a "detached" feel - I just didn't feel as involved with it, even though I enjoyed it. Oh, I beg your pardon, there was a shade of grey after all, which slipped my mind - a Calormene soldier got in to heaven! Wa-hey!

Silver Chair: I love this one, it was actually the first Narnia book I read (dad bought it for me, not realising they were a series), as far as I can see the big problem will be cramming it all in. Probably not as filmable as Dawn Treader, which btw should make a better movie than Prince Caspian did. The Beeb did indeed produce the Silver Chair as one of their TV series of Narnia (Tom Baker was Puddleglum), and that was as far as they got. Who could blame them...

Eustace: I always liked Jill better. But I think they could do something with him. Once he gets his head straight he's a bit like a woosier Edmund.

Jadis: Yes, she is the White Witch, and I'm fairly sure the Lady of the Green Kirtle is described in the Silver Chair as being of "the same race" as Jadis or something of that kidney, but is not the same person.

 

[Raven]

Re: "Narnia" series to continue...

I'm glad the Narnia film series will continue. I loved The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, and Prince Caspian surpassed my expectations and entertained me even more. It was better written, better acted, better filmed. Everything was better overall: the costumes, the special effects, the battles, the music. I can't wait to see the third movie.

Ouch. I have to say I didn't like either film, but Caspian was better acted? Better written? Better filmed? Just... no. It was a horrible mess of a film, IMO.

 

[kythe]

Re: Prince Caspian (2008)

I finally saw this movie, only because I suddenly noticed it was on Netflix instant so I didn't have to rent it. I hated the new Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe because I felt it changed so much from the book. I prefer both the animated version and the BBC production of the story. I was so disappointed in LWW that I hadn't even planned to see Prince Caspian, that's why it took me this long to get around to it.

I was quite surprised to be drawn in to Prince Caspian from the beginning. It felt gritty, and the pacing and scenery were excellent. I didn't expect to like it, but now I'm going to re-read the book and I might even see it again.

The movie did start to fall apart a bit during the last hour. I think it lost a major theme from the book, faith, and for me that harmed the story and detracted from Aslan's role. One major point in the book was that if the kids had trusted in Aslan sooner, the outcome would have been better. The movie reduced this to Aslan finally showing up and just saying some stupid line to the effect that it "couldn't happen the same way twice". I understand that they were trying to tone down the Christian allegory, but it's a bit hard to miss in this story without taking Aslan out all together.

Then they went on to yet another miniature LOTR-style battle, complete with fighting trees. That was yet another part of the book that was truly beautiful and magical - when Lucy awoke the trees and they danced. I was disappointed to see Aslan roaring them awake so they could fight.

Peter's attitude brought up other problems that were never redeemed. To be fair, he was always something of a prick. I thought it really worked that he had an ongoing power struggle with Prince Caspian. But I still have mixed feelings about him being portrayed as a bully in the beginning at the train station. In the middle, he actually appeared tempted by the White Witch (when/why did he ever turn away from Aslan?). At the end, he simply says he and Susan will not return because they are too old and there is nothing more they can learn in Narnia. So, is he just going to go back and keep bullying people? The movie just didn't redeem him in any way or make him at all likeable, even in the end. This is a problem for what should be the noble High King Peter.

I guess my review sounds quite negative, but sometimes it's easier to point out what you didn't like. Overall, I did enjoy the movie much more than I thought I would. I am glad I finally saw it.