Fingers Crossed for the Hugo Award...

Werthead

Werthead

Lemming of Discord
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We find out on Sunday if A Feast for Crows has won the Hugo Award for Best Novel. George RR Martin has won several Hugos before for short stories and novellas over his 35 year career, but never the biggie. A Storm of Swords was also nominated but lost out to an obscure novel called Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. The competition is also tough this year (I believe Charles Stross' Accelerando is the favourite, by a whisker) but Half-Blood Prince was not nominated (Rowling's extremely lukewarm reaction to winning the Hugo Award has not endeared her to SF&F fandom).

The award will be announced at Worldcon, which is taking place right now in Anaheim, California. Over 100 members of the Brotherhood Without Banners are partying there at this very moment (give or take the time difference) and giving George maximum support. So, good luck to George!

(and it seems that most people are assuming that if AFFC wins, it will be a vote for the whole series, not necessarily just AFFC by itself ;) )
 
Thats what they do with the Oscars...when Pacino won for Scent of A Woman, it wasnt just for that role, it was for the body of work he contributed. So lets pray it the same thing...I will now be purchasing that Accelerando title which I never heard of because Im out of books to read.
 
Werthead said:
(and it seems that most people are assuming that if AFFC wins, it will be a vote for the whole series, not necessarily just AFFC by itself ;) )
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Ironic really isn't it?
It's not exactly most peoples favourite in the series.
While I'd love GRRM to win the Hugo, I would have prefered him to do so for ASoS.

By the way, I love the new avatar Werthead :)
 
This book was not that great IMO. I don't think he deserves awards for supposedly splitting the book in two. Also, if he split it in two, why is the second taking so long, you'd think they could come out about 2 months apart. Sounds like poppycock to me. I think he sort of laid an egg here.
 
TBH I agree with him to an extent. I know you all offered lots of arguments that explained it away, but I just cannot/will not get my head around how on earth these two statements (paraphrased) can be compatible.


"I finished writing AFFC and it was too big so it was decided to split it into two volumes."

and

"I'm about halfway (or whatever) through writing ADWD now"


He says he finished "AFFC" (and by this I mean the pre-"Oh poop it's too big!" version), and yet he still has/had over half of ADWD to write. So either the other character POV's were considerably shorter, which I find hard to believe, or they were roughly the same and he's just writing additional stuff that he had planned would take place in ADWD before the split. In which case ADWD will logically be much bigger than AFFC, and will have to be split as well, screwing up the next book, which will in turn now be too crowded etc. Surely it would have been better to just have published AFFC in two volumes, so he can get back to his plan for the rest of the series. Or he lied and he hasn't actually finished all he says he has.
 
Also, I just don't think AFFC is on par with the first three. I'd rate them

1. Storm of Swords
2. Game of Thrones



3. Clash of Kings










4. Feast for Crows.
 
Sorry, I dont buy the "AFFC is inferior" or "AFFC is half a book" arguement. Most have complained only because their favourite POV's were not included. Yes, I also have a favourite but I don't tend to rate them. Personally, I think it's a brilliant piece and once the entire series is written and the debate on if there was a weak link in the ASOIF, the importance of AFFC will come through even more so.

Oh, and DE, I don't think GRRM has lied to us. I just think he wrote and wrote and wrote, and said: "Oh Sh*%, this book is fuc#$@ huge!!!". Then he spilt it, probably had to write a couple more chapters to finish the POV's at the point in time in the story he wanted them to finish and with all the fanfare of having a fantasy novel debut at #1 on the NY Time Bestsellers List, had little time to finish the other POV's he's reserving for ADWD. Also, he said in a previous update that we will be treated to a new POV, a returning POV as well as more Arya and Asha. I also think he had a couple of other projects on the go. Anyways, I'm patiently waiting as GRRM hasn't let me down yet.

But one question (I'm sure Trey, Red Temple, Raven or Werthead can answer), didn't GRRM state once in an update that because AFFC was split and more stuff that was supposed to go in there will now end up in ADWD, he is thinking of adding another book to the series? After ADWD, we have The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring confirmed but any talk of another book?
 
Yep - there are now currently 7 planned books in the series. Although my money is on 8, when all things are said and done.
 
Winters_Sorrow said:
By the way, I love the new avatar Werthead :)
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Am I missing something? Isn't this the same avatar he's always had? :confused:

Oops - sorry for the double post. I'm an ass.
 
Dolorous Edd said:
TBH I agree with him to an extent. I know you all offered lots of arguments that explained it away, but I just cannot/will not get my head around how on earth these two statements (paraphrased) can be compatible.


"I finished writing AFFC and it was too big so it was decided to split it into two volumes."

and

"I'm about halfway (or whatever) through writing ADWD now"
Click to expand...
Right, this is pretty straightforward.

The pre-split A Feast for Crows was not complete when he split it in half. He thought he was perhaps still 100-200 manuscript pages away from completion. Given the pre-split book was nearing 1700 manuscript pages (the published A Storm of Swords is about 1600, for comparison), this is the reason his publishers started having a heart attack.

The published A Feast for Crows contains two thirds of the pre-split book, not half. This is a very common mistake, not helped by Martin's unclear description of the event.

A Dance with Dragons will now consist of only one third of the pre-split AFFC, most of which has been rewritten. Some sections have been expanded (Dany, Jon and Tyrion all have more chapters than they would have done before). Some characters have been added (Bran wouldn't have been in the book at all, but now has at least three chapters). Some material that may have been kept back until later has been brought forward into the 'new' A Dance with Dragons.

The reason that ADWD has not been published yet is that GRRM still had to write two-thirds of a novel's worth of new material for it (and rewrite the rest). That's why it won't be published until 18 months after AFFC (touch wood).

Red-Temple, this is my traditional avatar used on many other forums. I'd simply forgotten to upload it here before now :) As for the source, it's a Russian fansite with tons of cool pictures. There are flags for the other major houses as well as the Martells. Erm, unfortunately I've lost the URL. It might be linked on GRRM's page, but I'm not sure.

As for the eight-book possibility, it comes down to the fact that whilst the series was still at six books, Parris (GRRM's other half) kept saying it would be seven books and GRRM kept denying it. Then it went to seven. Now Parris is saying it'll be eight (on the grounds that the split has added another book to the series, so 7 by GRRM's estimate and 8 by hers). GRRM, not wishing to tempt fate, has basically said that yes, it could go to eight, but he's going to pull out all the stops to keep it to seven.

At least with GRRM the problem is he has too much plot for his books, rather than Jordan, who is suffering the opposite problem ;)
 
None of this has any bearing on the fact the AFFC was the weakest book in the series to me though. I just think he got caught in a corner as far as storytelling a little bit. The Arys Oakheart thing, wasn't there a POV from Hotah? And the POVs of the Ironborn while interesting, seemed to jump around. He strayed from the formula IMO, and the product wasn't as strong as the others.
 
I hope he wins for.......his body of work.

I've come to a point where I rather enjoy AFFC, but if anyone tells me as a followup to SOS it didn't fall a bit flat, I mean come on.

It did.

But there's something in that I didn't realize before. That is the utter glory of SOS. As most of you know I just reread AFFC, but after that I reread a selection of POV's from SOS. SOS is the most most "hold on to your ass, because the ride starts now!" fantasy book ever.

I would bet even if he hadn't split AFFC, we'd all have carpal tunnel from holding it, and would all still be bitching about it not standing up to the brief legacy of SOS.

I have a certain feeling that none of us are complaining about the slow continuation of the story but the inevitable fear it may never be complete.
 
I'm at a disadvantage because I only read 7 of Jordan's books.

Just 7 of them.

If anyone wants to make a legitimate comparison between GRRM's 4 (that's 4 books) to Jordan's unwieldy series, I'd like to hear it.
 
Wiggum said:
If anyone wants to make a legitimate comparison between GRRM's 4 (that's 4 books) to Jordan's unwieldy series, I'd like to hear it.
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They are many comparisons that can be drawn! For instance:

1) They are both a series of books!

2) They both were written in English!

3) They are printed on paper!

4) The authors are both from the planet Earth!

5) They've both been published!

6) They both have female characters in prominent roles!

7) they both have male characters in prominent roles!

8) They both have sword fight's!

9) They both have a beginning, a middle, and an end!


As you can see, the similarities are endless! AND! As TWOT was started many years before ASOIAF, Martin has clearly stolen Jordan's work!

All hail Jordan! The one true Fantasy Master to rule them all!


That a good enough argument for you Wiggum? ;)


Never underestimate a drunkard on a saturday night! :D
 
Robert Jordan on George RR Martin:

George Martin and I know each other to the extent that we’ll have a beer together when we run into one another, or dinner maybe. I like his books. His style is very different from mine, but I don’t go around looking for people who write the way I do. Oh, yes. George is a good guy. I like him as well as his books.
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