Maggy the Frog

lordlucless

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I was reading through aFfC again, and I came across a number of interesting facts I hadn't noticed before

  1. Maggy the Frog was a nobleman's wife, at some stage
  2. Maggy was a foreigner
  3. The nobleman Maggy married was originally a merchant, who improved his station
  4. Jeyne Westerling's mother was a Spicer (a line of up-jumped merchants) before she married into the Westerlings, and it was rumoured her mother was a "half-mad witch-woman from the east"
So, does anyone think that Jeyne Westerling might be descended from a Magi, or that this might become an important detail in the future?
 
lordlucless said:
I was reading through aFfC again, and I came across a number of interesting facts I hadn't noticed before

  1. Maggy the Frog was a nobleman's wife, at some stage
  2. Maggy was a foreigner
  3. The nobleman Maggy married was originally a merchant, who improved his station
  4. Jeyne Westerling's mother was a Spicer (a line of up-jumped merchants) before she married into the Westerlings, and it was rumoured her mother was a "half-mad witch-woman from the east"
So, does anyone think that Jeyne Westerling might be descended from a Magi, or that this might become an important detail in the future?
Like a lot of GRRM's mysterious little tit-bits - "It could be!". I half wondered if that was the same Maggy 'The Frog' who Cersei encountered when she was young and whom prophesied Cersei's death. Then I wondered why a nobleman's wife would be sleeping in a dank, mouldy old tent and let little brats kick her.
 
There may certainly be a connection with other characters that are also "foreigners". Like Taena Merryweather or Varys or Illyrio???
 
Funky Cthulu said:
Then I wondered why a nobleman's wife would be sleeping in a dank, mouldy old tent and let little brats kick her.

Presumably the husband died and the family didn't want a foreign maegi hanging around the place.

To further clarify: "Half of Lannisport used to go to her for charms and potions. She was mother to a petty lord, a wealthy merchant upjumped by my grandsire. This lord's father had found her whilst trading in the east." That's the passage that gives the most clues.

The other was "The Westerlings were an old House, and proud, but Lady Sybell herself had been born a spicer, from a line of up-jumped merchants. Her grandmother had been some sort of half-mad witch woman from the east, he seemed to recall".

I noticed it because I was wondering why Jeyne Westerling was included here. We have her standing up for herself, showing a bit of spirit, and impressing Jaime enough that he told her mother that Jeyne was worth ten of her. Now, Rob is dead, and it seems like Jeyne has been force-fed moon tea, or something like that, in order to assure that Rob would have no son from her. It would seem like her part in all this is done, and yet GRRM dedicates this little section to further developing her character. So I'm wondering if she might not have some further role to play.

If Jeyne's great-grandmother was a Maegi, and one still alive when Cersei was a child, it's not inconceivable that Jeyne may have met her/learned from her. Or it might be that she has some latent talent passed through her blood line. Either way, with magic starting to blossom again in Westeros, I thought that her future role may involve some sort of magical ability, especially since these clues about Maggy and the Spicers were only added in this novel.
 
lordlucless said:
Presumably the husband died and the family didn't want a foreign maegi hanging around the place.

To further clarify: "Half of Lannisport used to go to her for charms and potions. She was mother to a petty lord, a wealthy merchant upjumped by my grandsire. This lord's father had found her whilst trading in the east." That's the passage that gives the most clues.

The other was "The Westerlings were an old House, and proud, but Lady Sybell herself had been born a spicer, from a line of up-jumped merchants. Her grandmother had been some sort of half-mad witch woman from the east, he seemed to recall".

I noticed it because I was wondering why Jeyne Westerling was included here. We have her standing up for herself, showing a bit of spirit, and impressing Jaime enough that he told her mother that Jeyne was worth ten of her. Now, Rob is dead, and it seems like Jeyne has been force-fed moon tea, or something like that, in order to assure that Rob would have no son from her. It would seem like her part in all this is done, and yet GRRM dedicates this little section to further developing her character. So I'm wondering if she might not have some further role to play.

If Jeyne's great-grandmother was a Maegi, and one still alive when Cersei was a child, it's not inconceivable that Jeyne may have met her/learned from her. Or it might be that she has some latent talent passed through her blood line. Either way, with magic starting to blossom again in Westeros, I thought that her future role may involve some sort of magical ability, especially since these clues about Maggy and the Spicers were only added in this novel.
Good point - sorry, I realised my original post may have come across a bit brusquely. Yes, I agree with you, the link to Jeyne is definitely there. With all the little details springing up, I hope GRRM can weave all these little stories in, without extending the books too much. Either way, I'm interested to see when Jeyne will pop up again. Too bad Maggy the frog is dead - she sounds pretty intriguing.
 
I think that idea has been dispatched as being either authors neglect or differing of tastes.

If it were an impostor she was the most consummate professional of an actor I can recall....shredding her clothes, storming out of the room, etc et al.

You know nothing Trey Greyjoy.

I do however love the idea of Jeyne being the "young Queen" that causes Cerseis downfall and not Margaery. That makes me giggle inside just thinking about it.
 
Err, I was kidding you know....paraphrasing Ygritte and all...so turn that frown upside down and all that...I sound like my mom....aww geeez I think I just vomited in my mouth.
 
...like Brienne ;)


Seriously, could there be a link between Maggy, Jeyne and Taena? Could Taena - sent by some hidden forces with links to the Westerlings - be the one to "influence" Cersei and help fulfill the prophecy?
 
Oh geez...I didnt think about the Brienne angle.

Everybody sing some Sir Mix-A-Lot with me

"I like big Butts and I can not lie"

The idea with Jaime is called "changing baseline". That when what he used to think is being eroded by what he is thinking now to the point where he doesnt realize he's thinking the new stuff any longer. Kind of like how Boaz convinced Smiling Weirwood that Shogun is one of the best stories ever....ZING!:cool:

So TK, you wish to discuss the possibility that the lady Cersei got the whole Valonquar prophecy then set up the family tree to benefit from it? You know, drop the prophecy on Cersei then orchestrate the whole thing?

Doesnt Gemmel have something similar in one of his books? The Swords of Night and Day or whatever it was called....my google-fu is very weak tonight.
 
What? That's the first time I've heard about this.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

Or perhaps you have early-onset Alzheimer's...
 
Dangit all....I meant Dolorous Ed....you two look alike to me, trees and eyore wanna-bes always look alike....that and I like blueberries.....

Wheres my coffee? Someone took my coffee...

Going back to being Unworthy....

What a waste of perfectly good joke.
 
Aegon the Unworthy said:
Oh geez...I didnt think about the Brienne angle.

Everybody sing some Sir Mix-A-Lot with me

"I like big Butts and I can not lie"
lol

Edited the rest - I think the Gemmel thing is not quite right, but its been so long since ive read the book & I cant quite remember the detials, hence the edit.
 
Funky Cthulu said:
Too bad Maggy the frog is dead - she sounds pretty intriguing.

Is she? The only thing I can remember about her eventual fate is what Cersei recalls - that she threw something in her face that made her scream, before she and her friend left the tent. Does Cersei indicate she's dead somewhere else?
 
lordlucless said:
Is she? The only thing I can remember about her eventual fate is what Cersei recalls - that she threw something in her face that made her scream, before she and her friend left the tent. Does Cersei indicate she's dead somewhere else?
Well, its possible she could be alive, since we don't know how old she was when Cersei met her, and its been maybe 15-20 years since then. However, I feel it would be a bit of a stretch for her to turn up again - there must be some characters who only get a passing mention!
 
Funky Cthulu said:
Well, its possible she could be alive, since we don't know how old she was when Cersei met her, and its been maybe 15-20 years since then. However, I feel it would be a bit of a stretch for her to turn up again - there must be some characters who only get a passing mention!
Oh, and I assumed (foolish of me, I know) she was pretty old when Cersei encountered her...still, she could be a prematurely aged 45 year old. Certainly most common people would look pretty haggard at that age, I imagine. It is a world without dentists, cosmetic surgery, anti ageing moisturisers and antibiotics. Which brings me to something I've always wondered - there's never any mention of characters brushing their teeth - maybe this is stupid, but shouldn't they all have rather gross mouths by now? Or is the lack of refined sugar in their diet mean they're generally ok?
 

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