SosT Round One: Arthur Dayne vs Euron Greyjoy

[the smiling weirwood]

And I rejoice in it.

 

[JohnSnow]

7 vs 3 people.....7 versus 3.....lets not forget that. Trust me those odds are an asswhooping waiting to happen. And the fact that 2 walked away is a testament to the three not the skill of the 7.

Did I mention 7 vs 3?

yet sadly so true... yes you did mention 7 v 3.

I can not wait to find out the exact events leading up to, happening during and immediately after that day.

*snow*

 

[Dayne]

One thing that's always bothered me in this book is that some of the characters are so honor-bound. I mean, they end up being some of my favorite characters, but are so bound by honor that they don't end up making the wisest, and sometimes even practical decisions. I realize everyone handles things differently, so that might be an explanation, but I think some things are going to sway 90% one way and minimally the other.

In the case of Arthur Dayne, did he really have to die there that day? Because you make an oath to a king doesn't mean you should follow his command to your death. If the decision is a bad decision, why would you not have enough common sense to conclude this isn't the wisest course of action? It makes some of these characters almost like Daenerys' unsullied, that they blindly follow whatever their king tells them to. Martin tries to justify it nobly in the case of Dayne, Eddard Stark etc, but I'd like to think such great men would come to different conclusions in some of those circumstances.

 

[C Of K]

If it's any consolation, BFS served under the usurpers, and yet his name was still enough to lend honor to any king.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

I'm not sure about this. It seems that Euron might pull a Bronn and dance around the place. But then again, I doubt that Dayne got his reputation by falling for tricks like Bronn's opponent did.

 

[Boaz]

One thing that's always bothered me in this book is that some of the characters are so honor-bound. I mean, they end up being some of my favorite characters, but are so bound by honor that they don't end up making the wisest, and sometimes even practical decisions. I realize everyone handles things differently, so that might be an explanation, but I think some things are going to sway 90% one way and minimally the other.

In the case of Arthur Dayne, did he really have to die there that day? Because you make an oath to a king doesn't mean you should follow his command to your death. If the decision is a bad decision, why would you not have enough common sense to conclude this isn't the wisest course of action? It makes some of these characters almost like Daenerys' unsullied, that they blindly follow whatever their king tells them to. Martin tries to justify it nobly in the case of Dayne, Eddard Stark etc, but I'd like to think such great men would come to different conclusions in some of those circumstances.

Dayne, Welcome.

You've toucned upon one of the major themes of ASOIAF... complex personalities and character beliefs. In my opinion, Martin is commenting on the usual simplicity of characters in the fantasy genre. I believe he's trying to make his characters more realistic.

One hallmark of Fantasy is that it's characters are well, fantastic. They are idealized versions of good and evil, wise and foolish, heroic and cowardly. So a hero is good, wise and heroic... always. That's why the stories sell... because the heroes always do the right thing, the wise thing, the brave thing... i.e. they always win.

We know that life is not that way... that's why we read fantasy. We need these examples. But on the other hand, we know it's not how things really work.

Martin is writing this story from a more realistic point. Good guys are goof and kind, but not always wise. Heroes are brave, but not always good. Wise men are intelligent, but not always moral.

Eddard is the biggest example of a protagonist not making the wisest decisions. He did not execute men lightly. He sought to do justice and provide mercy when he could. He called it honor, but another way to put it might be to say that he wanted to be able to look at himself in the mirror every morning and like what he saw. But Littlefinger told him something to the effect of, "You wear your honor like a suit of armor. You think it protects you, but all it does is wear you down."

Littlefinger is completely unscrupulous. He could not live with himself if he let an opportunity, to hurt someone for gain, pass him by. He is the wise man without morals.

Jon seems to be headed towards being the biggest hero of the story. And yet he once broke his vows by abandoning the Night's Watch. Later he struggled with obeying Qhorin's orders to break the letter of his vows while keeping to the spirit of them. Jon's not quite the typical teenage, fantasy hero.

Why do the protagonists not always do the wise thing? Why don't they always choose the bravest course?

And why don't the antagonists always behave evilly? Jaime and Tyrion seem hell bent to ruin their reputations as monsters.