SoST Round Two: Khal Drogo vs Ned Stark

[Koopa]

Okay, first off the reason why the dothraki dont wear such armor is because of their environment, their way of life, you would not survive the plains if you'd be wearing such armor, this being said i highly doubt Drogo would be that stupid not to quickly realize that in westeros, a whole different environment such armor plating would be good and helpful.

As for ned leading Robert van, that is hardly difficlut to figure out, i mean he was Roberts best friend, he was the lord of Winterfell roberts greatest support, he had ice, he was a good commander (and he would be a good motivator of his men cause of his values (kinda like the lionheart who fought alongside his men, instead of commanding from the back.), also i am sure he could hold his own, wich is not the same as being a great fighter.

Dorne is the least populated area btw.
The North is a bit like Russia to me, they just wont go down, no matter what befalls them

 

[Funky Cthulu]

Okay, first off the reason why the dothraki dont wear such armor is because of their environment, their way of life, you would not survive the plains if you'd be wearing such armor, this being said i highly doubt Drogo would be that stupid not to quickly realize that in westeros, a whole different environment such armor plating would be good and helpful.

But...realistically, you need several years experience wearing plate to know how to move in it. Even a very strong man or woman donning plate armour for the first time would be slower and clumsier than a smaller, but more experienced armoured fighter. So unless the rules are that combatants get the same weapons and armour, and then allowed time to be trained in the use pf them, I see the characters appearing au natural.
Otherwise, there are so little limitations on each persons potential, it is nearly impossible (for me, anyways) to distinguish which would win.

 

[Koopa]

well yes, but he does not need to done heavy plate meil, he could just as well opt for light armor

Moreover Drogo was huge, whereis ned isnt so his range more limited, and seeing that drogo is strong, he wouldn't be bothered all that much

 

[devilsgrin]

wielding a greatsword like Ice would certainly make up for any range deficiency Ned may suffer versus Drogo. Light Armour? Against Valyrian Steel? You've got to be kidding. Valyrian steel slices through regular metals like a hot knife through butter. Drogo would not stand a chance against that kind of weaponry superiority. Drogo with his best war-gear is nothing compared to Ned with his best war-gear. Even a decent fighter like Ned could take a comparitively superior warrior like Drogo when wielding a sword like Ice and the best chainmail available in westeros.

 

[Funky Cthulu]

wielding a greatsword like Ice would certainly make up for any range deficiency Ned may suffer versus Drogo.

I suppose there's a slight possibility Drogo could use his extra mobility and speed to try to take Ice away from Ned. Trickery and guile definitely tip the scales in any fighters favour. The onion in that ointment being that I can't recall Drogo showing any great amount of cunning and deceitfulness against his opponents in the books.

 

[devilsgrin]

indeed. from what i gathered the dothraki were in no way brilliant strategists or even remotely cunning. Burn. rape. pillage. kill. not really higher tactical accumen. Further they seem very tied to tradition. Deviation from tradition - such as wearing metal armour like the Westerosi do - would be unthinkable to them. I doubt Drogo would even think of wearing armour or trying to take a huge, straight sword from his opponent. Attempting to disarm however...he might try that...even he's not that stupid.

 

[Koopa]

Ice is a greatsword, its lenghts is not unique, as for light armour giving little defense, i am sure it gives some defense, besides by your logic, then heavy plate would be useless as well.

The dothraki ar pure plainsmen, there way of life is perfected, that does not mean they cannot adapt if need be.

When one looks at the intrique qualities, Drogo best Ned, also heavy armor has lots of disadvantages as well, also, a greatsword can be disadadvantous as well, if drogo gets within his circle his greatsword is too large to wield effectively, also one swing of a greatsword takes more time and a lot more control then smaller swords, though ned is aided by the fact that valyrian is lighter.

 

[devilsgrin]

Ice is a greatsword, its lenghts is not unique, as for light armour giving little defense, i am sure it gives some defense, besides by your logic, then heavy plate would be useless as well.

light armour would indeed be useless against Valyrian steel. Full plate might offer some protection, but it would not hold up to repeated attack.

The dothraki ar pure plainsmen, there way of life is perfected, that does not mean they cannot adapt if need be

it doesn't mean they can't. But from what i read of them they would not.

When one looks at the intrique qualities, Drogo best Ned, also heavy armor has lots of disadvantages as well, also, a greatsword can be disadadvantous as well, if drogo gets within his circle his greatsword is too large to wield effectively, also one swing of a greatsword takes more time and a lot more control then smaller swords, though ned is aided by the fact that valyrian is lighter.

Weight is the factor in control over a greatsword, and as you say, Ice is valyrian steel and therefore likely lighter than Drogo's arakh. Ned has also had as many years with his weapon as drogo has with his, i'm sure he'd know how to counter an opponent who gets inside his weapons range.

 

[Koopa]

What is also important is the fact that the swing is larger and therefore takes more time, regardless of its weight.

Also from what i read, the dothraki live by culture and tradition, but they do not read as being unable to change, indeed Drogo seems adaptable if need, be (letting Dany sit atop him, ..)

It is clear too that they are not so ignorant of platemail as you would have us all belive, in AGOT, Viserys wears ringmail all the time.

Also one could say that he have Dany to advice him, who listens to the Bear and thus will wear plate , you seem hung up as well to the fact that because he has ice he is a great warrior, with a great advantage, the way i read your post is that if Eddard did not have his greatsword he is nothing more but mediocre. However when you look at the fight between Jon and the Halfhand it does not seem to me that your opponent having valyrian steel makes him unsurpassable and unbeatable, indeed if it where not for Jon's wolf, i'd think Qhorin would have won, the one lacking a valyrian sword.

 

[TK-421]

Oh well, this was a matchup between two guys that should of never of made it this far anyways and have only managed to do so because better fighetrs were matched up against other better fighters. So the semantics of who's more agile, the greater leader vs. the warrior is ho-hum...

 

[devilsgrin]

jon vs the halfhand? a green rookie who would barely be fully grown vs a veteran warrior? hardly an apt comparison.
I don't think Ned is a great warrior by any stretch. However, i do believe he is least a decent fighter. Whereas i do agree that drogo is the better warrior - though as the books don't really show much of either's fighting ability its hard to say by how much - if even at all.
I believe that its technology that would win this battle. Ned has the technological advantage by far.
Viserys is not a Dothraki. How does his wearing ringmail factor into this debate at all? Plate armour and ringmail are not the same thing and seeing one, i doubt the dothraki with their 'perfected lifestyle' would suddenly think.... oooh how about we try wearing plate armour...

 

[Koopa]

the fact of Viserys wearing ringmail shows that they are not so ignorant of armor as you'd like us too believe.

Jon vs Qhorin is a good comparison, cause it shows that the fact that Jon used Valyrian steel did not matter so much, it is not like other steel facing Valyrian gets cleanly cut in two or, so, therefore you can conclude that plate mail also wont be cleaved in two as easily as breaking a twig, faster probably then with normal steel, but its not like a super-can-opener.

As for there 'perfect lifestyle', the fact is they adopted to the plains, you would not be able to survive the plains for long within plate mail, seing as this duel can take hold anywhere, and for any possible time this factor is important. This does not mean thou that Drogo would not realize that in other environment different rules apply. Drogo remained undefeated in combat, to do this he must have had battle cunning at the very least.

 

[Aboveaverage Joe]

I'm not necessarily saying that I disagree with you all, but I felt the need to say the following. ​

Tribesmen types should probably have their own tournament due to difference in armor. Of all of the evidence presented for Ned’s possible victory, NONE of it has been about his actual skill and prowess as a fighter (but rather the quality of his sword and armor). In contrast, the evidence presented for Drogo is ALL regarding his actual fighting abilities and not his equipment. This makes the comparison irrelevant. The comparison of Ned to Randyll is more fitting.

1. The only way to make the fight a comparison of fighting prowess would be to determine who would win in a duel with both sides wearing no armor.
2. If both sides both had no armor and the same weapon, Ned wouldn’t stand a chance.
3. Based on the descriptions given by the author, Drogo is the greater warrior and is amongst the most well-rounded physical specimens among the living characters (alive since book 1) in the series. With most of the tall, super-strong fighters in the series, the plan is beating them with speed and stamina. Drogo not only had size and strength superior to Ned’s like Robert, The Mountain, The Hound, Strong Belwas, Greatjon ect., but also superior speed and agility (“the grace of a panther”) like Baristan the Bold, Bronn, Jaimie ect.
4. He also was undefeated despite always leading the charge and his camp grew to the size it did because of no other reason than his prowess as a fighter.
5. Also to have never cut his hair would indicate that he never lost a fight even in fighting older, more experienced men during his youth.

Ned is one of my absolute favorite characters, and if you say that a superior weapon and superior armor can possibly give him a victory, I won’t complain, but to say that he is a better fighter is ridiculous.

 

[svalbard]

It would have to be Ned. He came out victorious in a fight against the greatest knights of the age, Sr Gerold Hightower, Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Oswell Whent. Before the fight he says that he looked for them on the Trident. This speaks of a man who fought in the thick of the battle looking for his enemies. You see Ned comming up against great and famed foes but Khal Drogo does not face the same calibre of enemies.