Introducing Heinlein

[TTBRAHWTMG]

I've got a 10 year old daughter. I am trying to decide when and how to introduce her to Heinlein. She is already pubescent (I know...shocking), and an advanced reader, and developmentally seems to be way ahead of her age.

I don't want anything too meaty too early to turn her off, but I want to get in there while she is just starting to see the world around her for what it was, is, and what it could be. I find myself competing with some grade school teachers with some pretty backward attitudes here.

I'm leaning towards Have Space Suit Will Travel, or maybe Podkayne due to the young female protaganist, but would love suggestions and opinions...especially from a female RAH fan's perspective.

Do you think it is still too early? What aspect of Heinlein originally sucked you in? As a VERY young woman, what themes do you think might appeal to her?

 

[chrispenycate]

What aspect of Heilein? Availability! I started with "the roads must roll" when I was definitely no older than your daughter, and some of the juveniles (Space family Stone and Tunnel in the Sky) didn't get hold of till I left for university, the big city and second hand book shops, and was too old for them (but enjoyed them all the same). I supplied my nephews with what they requested, rather than what was suitable for them, and two out of three are enthusiastic readers (one's married a librarian, Is that cheating, or what?)
Sure, start her off on Poddy and the menace from Earth, if she prefers female role models. Or spacesuit/travel, or between planets. I was never a young woman, but observed my younger sister's reading habits (and, come to think of it, got her some pretty unsuitable stuff, too) and it wasn't all horses and romantic, any more than mine was all - well, now, perhaps it was.
Just my couple of cents worth, of course.

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

Found out I've been overthinking it. Heinlein made such a huge impact in my life, I just had this yearning to share his work with my kids...and to have them enjoy it. A couple of bad experiences introducing Heinlein to some friends over the years, in hindsight bad choices for intros, led me to be cautious with first picks.
I have a 4ft x 7-1/2ft bookcase in my home office, dedicated exclusively to my Heinlein collection. It's exhaustive and has multiple printings of all his works, along with other Heinleiniana.
Finally decided to go with HSWT, and sat down with her for an introductory chat. I should have suspected that her curiosity would have already gotten the better of her with that big bookcase in Dad's office all with one name on it. I found out she has already read over a dozen of them! She wasn't sure how I'd feel about it...so kept it to herself. Once I brought it up, she filled me in, and has a bunch of questions. Looks like I've got some explaining to do!
Happy Day!

 

[chrispenycate]

Stood on a step that wasn't there, eh?
Trust she was enjoying them; there again, she'd presumably have stopped after one or two (or even part of one) if she wasn't.
Nice feeling, isn't it? Even if a lack of offspring has eliminated that particular pleasure from my life, the thrill of someone else (even not related) apreciating a book that you've particularly liked… almost makes up for the times when they've been polite about them.

 

[Pyan]

Your daughters's ten, you say - you may have a lot of answers to find if the ones she's already read include, say, Friday, TEFL, I Will Fear No Evil, or, especially, To Sail Beyond The Sunset!

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

Your daughters's ten, you say - you may have a lot of answers to find if the ones she's already read include, say, Friday, TEFL, I Will Fear No Evil, or, especially, To Sail Beyond The Sunset!

Not too worried about this one. In fact, I'm somewhat surprised that she snuck a peak at them, not her style. This one is my oldest...a real rule follower and "don't rock the boat" type. If anything, I am pleasantly surprised! My biggest concern for Alexandria is getting her to loosen up a little. In fact I've been grinning to myself since I found out. She's extremely intelligent, and I'm not afraid of what she might have read...just glad that I am aware that she has read them now, so that we can discuss them openly. I haven't fully debriefed her yet, but after our first little talk I get the impression she has stuck to "the really old, little ones with the cool covers" so far.

Now my second daughter...that's another issue all together. She is my little female Woody! She climbed before she crawled, started walking at 8 months, (yes 8 months, trust me it turns some heads!) and has been a rascal ever since. Quick little story to illustrate my point. Valentine's Day 2004, she was 2-1/2, I had a bag of those little cinnamon hearts lying around my office. I've got a big TV in there, so she was in there watching a movie. I came walking in and caught her feasting on those hearts. I put the bag on the top shelf of my Heinlein case, and made the mistake of saying, "If I find you into those again without my permission I'm turning your movie off and it's straight to your room!" Would have nipped it in the bud right there with my eldest. Instead, Madelyn proceeded to climb up the case, grab a handful of hearts, climb down, turn off the TV, announce "I didn't like that movie anyway!" and proceeded toward her room. I stopped her (supressing my giggles and throwing her my stern look) and asked "Just what do you think you're doing, young lady?" All she said was "You didn't tell me not to, you just told me what would happen if I did!"

2-1/2!!! She was right, and I let her take them. I'm still giggling...but much more careful with my language around her!

My son...well I don't even want to go there. Thank God he is only 3, not nearly as advanced as Madelyn or Alex at that age, and relatively manageable still.

Kids! All so unique even inside the nuclear family. What a blessing!

 

[Pyan]

I sincerely hope you realise what a lucky man you are - though I suspect luck has had very little to do with the quality of your family!

Btw - what does your user-name stand for, if you don't mind me asking - I'm dying of curiosity!!

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

I sincerely hope you realise what a lucky man you are - though I suspect luck has had very little to do with the quality of your family!

Thanks for the qualifier...I work very hard at parenting...a concious decision prior to the birth of my first...starting with the belief that the best thing I can do for my kids is model a strong, open, and respectful relationship with my wife. They will always learn from what they see long before learning from what you tell them.
I never expected kids, nor marriage...with my background, I thought that it was in the interest of my potential offspring not to. I always subscribed to a line from Heinlein somewhere, can't place it at the moment, and loosely paraphrased to always be willing to pitch all my bags and move on in an instant, if necessary.
However, I also believe even more strongly in taking responsibility for my actions. When I discovered that my now wife was pregnant, I decided right then (after a little grieving) that I had to offer to marry her. A little unromantic and atypical, in that I promised her 18 years only, and phrased it more as a parenting contract. A little embarassing in hindsight, as my wife has developed into cornerstone of my life.

Btw - what does your user-name stand for, if you don't mind me asking - I'm dying of curiosity!!

Have developed a habit of using acronyms for our inside jokes and messages. This one is simply "Trying to bring Robert Anson Heinlein works to my girls." A let down, I'm sure! That was the main reason for my joining this site, wanted some feedback from some RAH fans through this thread I started. Instead I found myself reading bunch of threads, and getting sucked in, and took the plunge with my daughter without waiting for much feedback. First time I've participated in anything like this. I am enjoying it, and am probably still a little long winded for most of you experienced guys.

 

[Pyan]

Thanks for that! I got the "RAH" in the middle, but the rest stumped me!

I always subscribed to a line from Heinlein somewhere, can't place it at the moment, and loosely paraphrased to always be willing to pitch all my bags and move on in an instant, if necessary.

Are you thinking of:

When a ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

from the Notebooks of Lazarus Long?

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

Nope...same idea though...now I've got to go find it.

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

Damn...blown a few hours searching my books and the web, and can't find the one I'm thinking of. Can anybody help me out here? Is my memory bad enough that the quote I was thinking of isn't even Heinlein? This is going to bug me now.

 

[j d worthington]

It's ringing a bell, but I can't quite place it, no. However, there are multiple Heinlein sites on the 'net, and some of those are devoted almost exclusively to quotes, I think; they may be some help, if you google using that phrase.

As for her curiosity and having read them... makes me think of a customer when I was working in a sff bookshop; he wanted to introduce his son to Bradbury, but couldn't figure out a way to get him interested, as the kid seemed to be turned off by parental suggestions anent reading matter. So we told him "Just put it up on the shelves holding books he knows he's not supposed to read, and let it go at that." Sure enough, he came back in a week later, and the kid had picked out The Martian Chronicles and read it, had "been caught" at it, and when asked, said something to the effect of "this guy is cool!" and, like your daughter, started asking questions. Great time for the parents and the kid both.

Sounds like a very healthy set of youngsters. Reminds me of that line from Heinlein's The Rolling Stones, after father Stone has just send Cas and Pol t durance vile: "Thank heaven he hadn't been saddled with a couple of obedient, well-behaved little nincompoops!" Healthy children will always be a challenge... and the human race needs 'em that way if they're going to withstand what the future has in store....

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

It is actually after a pretty exhaustive search of some of those sites and trying every variation of the wording that I could come up with, that I am now starting to doubt it was Heinlein. I could have sworn it was...again, it's going to drive me nuts.

Your comments about my kids...it's funny I always get compliments from neighbours and school, etc. about how well behaved and mature my oldest is...and get called into the office for the unruliness of my second one. What they don't realize is that my personal concerns are more for my eldest!

 

[Urlik]

When I discovered that my now wife was pregnant, I decided right then (after a little grieving) that I had to offer to marry her. A little unromantic and atypical, in that I promised her 18 years only, and phrased it more as a parenting contract. A little embarassing in hindsight, as my wife has developed into cornerstone of my life.

unromantic, atypical and embarassing maybe but definitely pure Heinlein in spirit.

an honest proposal of what you were prepared to offer is far better than a grudgingly made promise of everything and far likelier to be kept and exceeded.
my situation is very similar although we never got married (she doesn't want a wedding without a honeymoon and we haven't been able to save up for one since Beth took over our lives 10 years ago and was joined by her co-conspirator Rosie 6 years ago LOL
it sounds like Rosie would get on well with Madelyn.
I knew that Lapis Lazuli should have been her name but I lost the vote

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

...but definitely pure Heinlein in spirit.

I don't know if you've read any of my other posts...but I often wonder if my lack of role modelling and formal education actually freed me in so many ways.

Oh, I won't go as far as Schulman (during the introduction to The Heinlein Interview) and make claims that Heinlein saved my life or anything...I did that for myself before being introduced to Heinlein. The truth is though, I was as near empty as a vessel could be when I did start reading Heinlein, and was seeking an identity so desperately.

I didn't have the tools at that point in my life to not take Heinlein literally. I was naive enough at that time to believe I could actually write my own "commandments", develop my own code of conduct, and actually live by it. I'm happy to say, in many ways I've never outgrown that naivete.

In light of this, you may understand why I consider your above statement as high praise indeed, and humbly thank you. It means that I must have met with atleast some success.

...it sounds like Rosie would get on well with Madelyn.
I knew that Lapis Lazuli should have been her name but I lost the vote

Cool little coincidence here...Madelyn's middle name is Rose...and my personal nickname for her ("only Daddy is allowed to call me that!") is Rosie. I hope you have as much fun and trouble (in my opinion, often the same thing!) with your Rosie as I do with mine.

 

[Urlik]

I don't know if you've read any of my other posts...but I often wonder if my lack of role modelling and formal education actually freed me in so many ways.

Oh, I won't go as far as Schulman (during the introduction to The Heinlein Interview) and make claims that Heinlein saved my life or anything...I did that for myself before being introduced to Heinlein. The truth is though, I was as near empty as a vessel could be when I did start reading Heinlein, and was seeking an identity so desperately.

I didn't have the tools at that point in my life to not take Heinlein literally. I was naive enough at that time to believe I could actually write my own "commandments", develop my own code of conduct, and actually live by it. I'm happy to say, in many ways I've never outgrown that naivete.

In light of this, you may understand why I consider your above statement as high praise indeed, and humbly thank you. It means that I must have met with atleast some success.

I was in my early teens when I started reading Heinlein and I like to think that some of his words have had a positive effect on me.
The basic thread that runs through most/all his books for me is personal responsibility and self respect and I try although I am no saint and I do fail sometimes.

Cool little coincidence here...Madelyn's middle name is Rose...and my personal nickname for her ("only Daddy is allowed to call me that!") is Rosie. I hope you have as much fun and trouble (in my opinion, often the same thing!) with your Rosie as I do with mine.

Oh yes. She has that peculiar talent for making everyone in the room laugh uncontrolably when one of them is trying to tell her off.
She likes to climb furniture and hasn't got the hang of sitting on the seat of a chair, but she does like to lie along the top of the back of my armchair (I swear that girl could sleep on a wire)

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

Oh yes. She has that peculiar talent for making everyone in the room laugh uncontrolably when one of them is trying to tell her off.
She likes to climb furniture and hasn't got the hang of sitting on the seat of a chair, but she does like to lie along the top of the back of my armchair (I swear that girl could sleep on a wire)

I'm liking her already! I wonder what Heinlein's kid(s) would have been like? Anybody know whether it was a choice not to have any or if it was a result of his poor health? I'm surprised I've never considered it before.

 

[Liz Pf]

Heinlein and our kids ...

I have two kids. I'll use the pseudonyms for them that I use on other lists ...

Ocelot is female and 11. She's a cross between a preteen Deety and Friday ... blossoming into a lovely young woman but with some major flaws. She is addicted to Tamora Pierce and isn't interested in RAH because there are no strong female characters that take on the world and win. [I'm not ready to hand her Glory Road or Friday.]

My son, The Boglet (like The Leewit) is 6, and a lot like Buster in The Rolling Stones. Cute, smart, polite, but has more energy than a tornado. He reads well, but not well enough for RAH quite yet.

When we were at Boskone, I bought a copy of the audio book of The Rolling Stones. Both kids are enjoying it.

--Liz

 

[TTBRAHWTMG]

There is nowhere that this really fits, but I guess this is as good as any as we've been talking about the kids in this thread...just had to share a giggle from on my way home from Easter Dinner.

We were driving along when Madelyn came out with a "****!" for some reason...my wife and I both reacted...she came back with "Oh yah...I forgot...you have to have your driver's license before you're allowed to say that!"

Geez, that kid! Don't know what this says about my wife's problems with road rage!

 

[littlemissattitude]

You've got bright kids, TT. You should be very proud.

And, more power to you for wanting to introduce your oldest to Heinlein and sf. My dad is the one who got me hooked on science fiction; started handing me books at a young age (well, I'd been reading since age 3, and he had already got me quite hooked on sf movies, so it was a natural progression).

Oh, and Red Planet was my first Heinlein, followed by Citizen of the Galaxy.