Weasel Soup
Yes, It Comes with Freys
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2006
- Messages
- 412
Please bear with the length of this post, but considering what this theorey is it takes alot of explaining.
Howland Reed = Tom O' Sevens
It has always bothered me that Howland did not raise his banners when Robb called, even though he was one of Ned's closest friends and likely aware of R+L=J.
The first mention we have of the Reed's is when Jojen and Meera come to Winterfell to swear fealty. The quote of note to me in this encounter is (Bran's voice):
"He was curious about these mudmen. He could not recall ever seeing one before. His father had sent letters to the Lord of Greywater over the years, but none of the crannogmen had ever called at Winterfell."
This, to me, becomes important much later on, when unCat leads the Brave Companions post Dondarrion. unCat, or Cat for that matter would not recognize Howland, and also the same can be said for Arya.
So we know that Howland sends Jojen and Meera to Winterfell, and they inturn help mentor Bran with his Warg-ing abilities largely through Jojen's greensight and their passage to see Coldhands. It would be rather safe to say that Howland would know through Jojen's greensight certain aspects of history to come, (that is if Howland does not have greensight himself) from the winged wolf to the drowning of Winterfell. In this way, at least one of the heirs to Winterfell is kept safe.
It is after Ned's death that Jojen and Meera arrive in Winterfell, and it would be at this time that Howland would have left Greywater and joined company with the Brave Companions.
First appearance of Tom O'Sevens, he is described as such:
"A small man, fifty from the look of him,he had a big mouth, a sharp nose and thinning brown hair. His faded Greens were mended here and there with old leather patches........The man beside him stood a good foot taller....."
This description seems consistant with a crannogman.
In his discussions with Arya, whom he pays much more attention than Gendry or Hot Pie, he is much gentler than the other of the Brave Companions.
Then while talking with Gendry a few pages later, a somewhat cryptic comment from Tom o' Sevens, when Gendry contests they would not have found them....
"Now, Lad, You shouldn't be so certain of that" said Tom. "Sometimes a man knows more than he says."
While the comment in the context of the discussion may be casual enough but, in the spirit of the theorey, this can also point to Greensight.
The next major flag for me, was after Arya is known as Arya, and it is known by this stage that the Brave Companions are followers of R'hllor (or Rulore as Arya says). The quote is:
"High Heart had been sacred to the children of the forest, Tom Sevenstrings told her, and some of their magic lingered here still. 'No harm can ever come to those as sleep here', the singer said."
Other than Starks, Reeds and Wildlings, there really are not any other characters who discuss with any belief or credibility of the children of the forest, and certainly not a sincere follower of R'hllor. And really the older generation of Starks seems a bit tepid on the issue.
In another page or so, they meet the old woman who is a prophet, and Tom is there to sing for her, when she gives the prophecy of Cat's death. And again she starts her prophecy with:
"The old gods stir and wont let me sleep"
The next time they see her Tom is asleep but is woken to sing for her, it seems that the first meeting was all "Howland" needed to hear.
Next flag, is when the group is with Lady Smallwood. The Brave Companion's by and large are non Partisan in the war between the Lannisters and Starks. Talking of hanging Wolves and Lion's alike.
At the news of Kingslaye's escape,Tom does not to be as non partisan as the others....
"'They did' said Lady Smallwood. 'Not that I believe a word of it. They claimed Lady Catelyn set him free.'
That startled Tom so badly he snapped a string. 'Go on with you', he said 'that's madness.'"
Other than the next meeting with the old woman prophet, and she calling Arya Death, Tom goes rather quiet til the end of AFFC.
So the points prior to AFFC.
Tom looks like a Crannogman, seems tender towards Arya, speaks of the children of the forest, possible greensight or knowledge of events, and seems Partisan toward the Starks.
Now with AFFC we lose Dondarrion to unCat offscreen. Seems like a bad trade off to lose a sword for a corpse Lady of Stark for the pre AFFC intentions of the Brave Companions, who again were hunting wolf and lion alike. So there had to be some offscreen influence to have that change. (ahem)
Thoros of Myr and Brienne's interaction in AFFC:
"'Justice.' Thoros smiled wanly. 'I remember justice. It had a pleasant taste. Justice was what we were about when Beric led us, or so we told ourselves.'"
And now with Stoneheart leading they seem to be striking more from a vengeant Stark perspective. As Brienne soon finds out.
Finally Jamie's description of Tom o' Sevens when he has managed to infiltrate the conquered Riverrun:
"Jaime had never paid the man much mind before. He was a small fellow, garbed in ragged green breeches and a frayed tunic of a lighter shade of green, with brown leather patches covering the holes. His nose was long and sharp, his smile big and loose. Thin brown hair fell to his collar, snaggled and unwashed. Fifty if he's a day, thought Jaime, a hedge harp, and hard used by life."
This is ending soon I promise
The last thing that sticks out in my head, is that Martin has used this gambit before with Mance Rayder. A leader/Lord mascarading as a singer to go undetected in hostile territory. But in this case, instead of passively observing, Howland/Tom is pushing things slowly in the favor of the Starks.
There seems to me, just too much subtle coincidence for this not to be a possibility.
OK Fire AWAY!!!
Howland Reed = Tom O' Sevens
It has always bothered me that Howland did not raise his banners when Robb called, even though he was one of Ned's closest friends and likely aware of R+L=J.
The first mention we have of the Reed's is when Jojen and Meera come to Winterfell to swear fealty. The quote of note to me in this encounter is (Bran's voice):
"He was curious about these mudmen. He could not recall ever seeing one before. His father had sent letters to the Lord of Greywater over the years, but none of the crannogmen had ever called at Winterfell."
This, to me, becomes important much later on, when unCat leads the Brave Companions post Dondarrion. unCat, or Cat for that matter would not recognize Howland, and also the same can be said for Arya.
So we know that Howland sends Jojen and Meera to Winterfell, and they inturn help mentor Bran with his Warg-ing abilities largely through Jojen's greensight and their passage to see Coldhands. It would be rather safe to say that Howland would know through Jojen's greensight certain aspects of history to come, (that is if Howland does not have greensight himself) from the winged wolf to the drowning of Winterfell. In this way, at least one of the heirs to Winterfell is kept safe.
It is after Ned's death that Jojen and Meera arrive in Winterfell, and it would be at this time that Howland would have left Greywater and joined company with the Brave Companions.
First appearance of Tom O'Sevens, he is described as such:
"A small man, fifty from the look of him,he had a big mouth, a sharp nose and thinning brown hair. His faded Greens were mended here and there with old leather patches........The man beside him stood a good foot taller....."
This description seems consistant with a crannogman.
In his discussions with Arya, whom he pays much more attention than Gendry or Hot Pie, he is much gentler than the other of the Brave Companions.
Then while talking with Gendry a few pages later, a somewhat cryptic comment from Tom o' Sevens, when Gendry contests they would not have found them....
"Now, Lad, You shouldn't be so certain of that" said Tom. "Sometimes a man knows more than he says."
While the comment in the context of the discussion may be casual enough but, in the spirit of the theorey, this can also point to Greensight.
The next major flag for me, was after Arya is known as Arya, and it is known by this stage that the Brave Companions are followers of R'hllor (or Rulore as Arya says). The quote is:
"High Heart had been sacred to the children of the forest, Tom Sevenstrings told her, and some of their magic lingered here still. 'No harm can ever come to those as sleep here', the singer said."
Other than Starks, Reeds and Wildlings, there really are not any other characters who discuss with any belief or credibility of the children of the forest, and certainly not a sincere follower of R'hllor. And really the older generation of Starks seems a bit tepid on the issue.
In another page or so, they meet the old woman who is a prophet, and Tom is there to sing for her, when she gives the prophecy of Cat's death. And again she starts her prophecy with:
"The old gods stir and wont let me sleep"
The next time they see her Tom is asleep but is woken to sing for her, it seems that the first meeting was all "Howland" needed to hear.
Next flag, is when the group is with Lady Smallwood. The Brave Companion's by and large are non Partisan in the war between the Lannisters and Starks. Talking of hanging Wolves and Lion's alike.
At the news of Kingslaye's escape,Tom does not to be as non partisan as the others....
"'They did' said Lady Smallwood. 'Not that I believe a word of it. They claimed Lady Catelyn set him free.'
That startled Tom so badly he snapped a string. 'Go on with you', he said 'that's madness.'"
Other than the next meeting with the old woman prophet, and she calling Arya Death, Tom goes rather quiet til the end of AFFC.
So the points prior to AFFC.
Tom looks like a Crannogman, seems tender towards Arya, speaks of the children of the forest, possible greensight or knowledge of events, and seems Partisan toward the Starks.
Now with AFFC we lose Dondarrion to unCat offscreen. Seems like a bad trade off to lose a sword for a corpse Lady of Stark for the pre AFFC intentions of the Brave Companions, who again were hunting wolf and lion alike. So there had to be some offscreen influence to have that change. (ahem)
Thoros of Myr and Brienne's interaction in AFFC:
"'Justice.' Thoros smiled wanly. 'I remember justice. It had a pleasant taste. Justice was what we were about when Beric led us, or so we told ourselves.'"
And now with Stoneheart leading they seem to be striking more from a vengeant Stark perspective. As Brienne soon finds out.
Finally Jamie's description of Tom o' Sevens when he has managed to infiltrate the conquered Riverrun:
"Jaime had never paid the man much mind before. He was a small fellow, garbed in ragged green breeches and a frayed tunic of a lighter shade of green, with brown leather patches covering the holes. His nose was long and sharp, his smile big and loose. Thin brown hair fell to his collar, snaggled and unwashed. Fifty if he's a day, thought Jaime, a hedge harp, and hard used by life."
This is ending soon I promise
The last thing that sticks out in my head, is that Martin has used this gambit before with Mance Rayder. A leader/Lord mascarading as a singer to go undetected in hostile territory. But in this case, instead of passively observing, Howland/Tom is pushing things slowly in the favor of the Starks.
There seems to me, just too much subtle coincidence for this not to be a possibility.
OK Fire AWAY!!!
