Looking for a Certain Kind of Fantasy Novel...

[Jay]

ERR... interesating description of Erikson's series as being a good fun series friend.

Don't get me wrong I consider Erikson and his Malazan books the best fantasy series I've ever read but I wouldn't call them good fun if you meant to imply easy going or light or happy type stories although YES they do have some nice comic elements in them.

Interesting and apt I think. I enjoy Erikson's series immensely, and admire it a great deal however that said in doing so I don't feel any need to make it more than what it is. Is it in one of the best current epic/high/Sword Sorcery tales out right now? Yes I think so. A fine piece of worldbuilding? Yes, Is it entertaining? Great deity and magic system? Yes I think very much so, however I think they are easy going, and easy reads, and not exactlyamong the most thougthful or relevant books I have read. I consider them entertaining and fun, but not in any way examples of deep reading in the genre.

Now, I do understand why a great majority of fans get so entranced by the percieved deep undertones of some epic series like Erikson's, Keyes, Hobb etc if the bul of their fanatsy reading consists of the likes of people like Terry Brooks, David Eddings, Maragreit Weiss, Tracy Hickman, Mercedes Lackey, David Gemmel, or have relegated themselves to reading Dragonlance novels before and the likewhose works are just completely devoid of any meaningful depth or semblance of quality of prose, that once you read a Erikson, Hobb, or Keyes it's concievable to think there cutting edge and mature.

However if you sepnt most of your time reading fantasy works by the likes of Michael Moorcock, M. John Harrison, Jeff VanderMeer, China Mieville, Jonathan Carroll, Charels De Lint, Tim Powers, James Blaylock, Michael Swanwick, Jack Vance, JG Ballard, Huxley, Bradbury, Philip K. Dick, Paul di Fillipo, Roger Zelazny, Philip Jose Farmer, Kazuo Ishiguro, Gene Wolfe among a host of others people who have been reading writing works for adults for years, than ones perception of Erikson's work would just be fun and entertaining, and there is nothig wrong with that, and it's not intended as a slight at all.

Even regarding epic standards I find Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing to be superiorly written than Erikson's work (which is still awesome mind you), and I think they both possess superior prose, which is a weakness IMHO of Erikson.

I enjoy Erikson's work a great deal, but I do consider it very much so as light reading.

That aside you seem to have listed some "classic" sword and sorcery stuff here so you obviously know your stuff!

My humble thanks

 

[GOLLUM]

Interesting and apt I think. I enjoy Erikson's series immensely, and admire it a great deal however that said in doing so I don't feel any need to make it more than what it is. Is it in one of the best current epic/high/Sword Sorcery tales out right now? Yes I think so. A fine piece of worldbuilding? Yes, Is it entertaining? Great deity and magic system? Yes I think very much so, however I think they are easy going, and easy reads, and not exactlyamong the most thougthful or relevant books I have read. I consider them entertaining and fun, but not in any way examples of deep reading in the genre.

Hmmm.. interesting comments there. I agree Erikson is not as great a writer as some others in the Genre like Wolfe who is truly great BUT I still feel his scope of vision, level of imagination and degree of complexity places him among the best for that reason, at least for me anyway. I guess I may have to respectfully disagree with you on that point.

Now, I do understand why a great majority of fans get so entranced by the percieved deep undertones of some epic series like Erikson's, Keyes, Hobb etc if the bul of their fanatsy reading consists of the likes of people like Terry Brooks, David Eddings, Maragreit Weiss, Tracy Hickman, Mercedes Lackey, David Gemmel, or have relegated themselves to reading Dragonlance novels before and the likewhose works are just completely devoid of any meaningful depth or semblance of quality of prose, that once you read a Erikson, Hobb, or Keyes it's concievable to think there cutting edge and mature..

I couldn't agree with you more on this observation. I used to read a number of those authors listed and other than maybe Keye's current series and Erikson they're a rung or three below the authors you listed in the next paragraph. However, I do sometimes go back to reading some of those authors more as a mental break from the "heavier" reads than for any other reason.

However if you sepnt most of your time reading fantasy works by the likes of Michael Moorcock, M. John Harrison, Jeff VanderMeer, China Mieville, Jonathan Carroll, Charels De Lint, Tim Powers, James Blaylock, Michael Swanwick, Jack Vance, JG Ballard, Huxley, Bradbury, Philip K. Dick, Paul di Fillipo, Roger Zelazny, Philip Jose Farmer, Kazuo Ishiguro, Gene Wolfe among a host of others people who have been reading writing works for adults for years, than ones perception of Erikson's work would just be fun and entertaining, and there is nothig wrong with that, and it's not intended as a slight at all.

UM.. actually having read fairly widely albeit moreso in the fantasy genre for the past 25 years I've read most of the authors you have listed and YES they're pretty much some of the cream of the crop, certainly in terms of writing ability, thoughtfulness and sheer invention. I just think Erikson deserves to be here too but perhaps more for the reasons that I've mentioned rather than for any great literary prose.

Even regarding epic standards I find Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing to be superiorly written than Erikson's work (which is still awesome mind you), and I think they both possess superior prose, which is a weakness IMHO of Erikson.

Yep, for me Martin and Bakker are probably better writers and they are in my top list of fantasy authors, although maybe not for you? As you may have ascertained I have a greater tendency towards the EPICS.

Bye for now..

 

[ITR Champion]

Going back to the original topic of this thread, I would suggest The Warrior's Tale and The Warrior Returns, by Allan Cole and Chris Bunch. They're prototypical swords & sorcery novels with tons of magic, R-rated sex scenes, and gigantic action sequences. And yes, the women are very tough.

 

[fungi from Yuggoth]

Been looking for a certain of fantasy novel...tried Amazon.com but had no luck in searching around really...what I'm looking for is a fantasy novel where the main character is like a female warrior (but I suppose she could be something else...) (yeah, the big cliche is the warrior woman who fights in a bikini, but oddly enough, I have yet to see a novel that is like that...), and as well, that is a novel that does not shy away from sexuality nor violence or such.
Can anyone help me out here? Or point me in the right direction?
Thanks.

Hi there. Try Jirel of Joiry by C.L. Moore, a female pulp writer living and writing during the Weird Tales era of the thirties. Her style is very sword and sorcery without shying away from certain issues that many writers of today find distasteful or unfashionable. There's a reprint of her works in a UK publication on amazon.co.uk that i think is better value than the one currently on amazon.com

edit: sorry Ainulindale, didn't see you already recommended this!

 

[GOLLUM]

I'd like to add to this good list of suggestions by mentioning Jude Fischer's Fool's Gold Trilogy. It features a relatively strong and independent female lead and is your classic EPIC fantasy style story. I quite enjoyed this series for a debut effort and all 3 books are now available in the US, Book 3 due around July in UK/OZ. Anyone else know of this series??

Another that is not your traditional sword and sorcery fare that goes into social structures and a developed language of the imagined world where the sex wouyld be considered by mainstream society as being somewhat progressive and where the main leads are male is Ricardo Pinto's Dance Of The Chameleon trilogy. Pinto's books can be a little slow moving plotwise and weighed down by their attempted complexity and are quite dark and violent affairs but like Paul Kearney he's another author who perhaps doesn't receive the plaudits he should IMHO. I find his descriptive prose particularly good. Books 1,2 are out Book 3 I don't even know if the author yet knows when it will be out.

My two cents worth..

 

[Jay]

edit: sorry Ainulindale, didn't see you already recommended this!

Absolutely no problem, Moore is not mentioend enough IMHO!

 

[pop-up-pirate]

Have you read any Steven Eriksson? The Malazan Book of the Fallen series. There is such a colourful array of characters that i'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.

Sorry my bad. Already posted.

 

[Mark Robson]

I seem to remember an author from the dim and distant past called Eric Van Lustbader - and no, this is not a spoof! He wrote sword and sorcery stories that were heavy on sex and violence, but I can't for the life of me remember any titles off the top of my head. I get the feeling that his work would appeal.

 

[garreth Jacks]

Are you looking for something that has a sword and sorcery feeling to it?
I can't think of anything that matches that very closely.
Um, the Artifacts of Power series by Maggie Furey is the best I can think of. Aurian's a mage as well as a swordswoman, but as far as I remember it wasn't espaecially heavy on the violence.


I am reading book one (Aurian) of that series right now and I think it is a very good reed I found book three and four in a second hand book shop yesterday now I need book two



Very good book so far and I would defiantly recommend it.

 

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

I hate to do this, but I firmly believe Martin was a good writer, and is now just phoning it in. I've seen several ludicrous sentences in my reading and in the excerpts he's been putting up, but I'll limit myself to quoting this excellent review by David Mathew:

Consider this paragraph:

"The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor."​

It doesn't work. If we had been given earlier references to Will's knowledge of how to compare at a glance the relative sharpnesses of swords and razors, then we might forgive this sort of sloppiness. But that word "somehow" is simply lazy. And "human metal"? Yes, of course we can deduce what Martin means; but this paragraph, among thousands of others, needed more work. There are references to the king whose girth matches his height. Excuse me? So that would make him a sphere, would it? Another example: "Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them..." (Hold what? Her breasts or the eggs?) "They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside." Right, it's the eggs. Gotcha. But this sort of ambiguity makes for a jumpy read, as one is obliged to evaluate one sentence in order to penetrate the mists of the previous one.

The whole thing is here: http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/thrones.htm

 

[Novocaine]

Consider reading Sabriel. It is based on a female character and she is not exactly that bikini lady you wish to see. But as far as I've read into it, there is some sexuality and there is much romance as well, if that is what you are looking for.