The Stone Cold Lock on Jon!

[Tysha]

Wow Boaz, your post are very interesting though they reminds me of husband-wife conversations like:
H: It's a nice pink dress.
W: Pink? It's not PINK! It's peach-orange! Do you think I look pink in this dress? Like Miss Piggie?! Do you think I'm a big fat pig?! That's it, I'm going to my mother!


I'm still convinced that Jon is one of the heads (and I still think they are-Dany, Jon and (ex-baby)Aegon wherever he is).
I believe that prophecies have a great power, you have a House of Undying prophecies: about baby Aegon (suggesting he is alive) and "A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness " - Blue flower - winter rose in a wall of ice - Jon who will feel the air with sweetness for Dany... (A bit gay for Jon but still...)
Who is a better head of the dragon than Rhaegar's own son?

About Jon and Arya - It's not like GRRM at all (I hope), I think Jon would never think of Arya in that way.

ras'matroi - all those things about Tyrion suggest that he is the one who fits a very important job - Dragon trainer (Dany desperately needs one and soon)

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

I think maybe Tysha that the line about Jon (blue flower, wall of ice, sweetness) is more like describing the fact that he is in full "bloom" as it were at a time when the Others are descending upon the north.

Ive always assumed that Ned counselled his two elder "progeny" equally. With Robb being an undeniable master of battle beyond his years, I assume Jon is similar. It just occured to me that Robb was a foreshadowing of Jon. He is the harbinger of what Jon can be. Their arcs are suprisingly similar in terms of leading men, violating their oaths, and whatnot....just Jons education was harder and not quite as deadly.

The one omission on Danys resume is battle command and experience at waging a campaign. I think it will be Jon who swears fealty to Dany at some point in order to fulfill the greater part of his duty to Westeros and she in turn will be relying on him to lead her troops. They could even be allied like this without ever knowing Jons true parentage.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

You know Boaz, that was an excellent post. Full of good factual information....

I have a slightly different interpretation though....if you dont mind Id like to share it.


I think Reed was under the assumption the Ned passed on Jons parentage to his children. Witness Jojens incredulousness that Bran had never heard the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree. This story was essentially the opening salvo to Roberts Rebellion and leads directly to Jons mysterious parentage. Ned avoided it for obvious reasons, his own hurts with Ashara and Rhaegars action in regards to the person I believe to have been Lyanna.

So I think yer right. I think there was a secret code in there. I just dont think anyone is around to hear it. Maester Luwin cant be a secret keeper in this one (least wise I dont think so) because Ned would have had to trust him at the beginning of his rule, essentially more than he trusted Cat or Roderick. I just cant see him placing Luwin over Roderick considering Roderick's son just died for this secret.

So they swear by the timelessness of the earth (earth and water), the old men the Stark were descended from (bronze and Iron), and the secrets they keep for the Starks (Fire and Ice)....pretty subtle wouldnt ya say.

So I dont think Ned told anyone. I think he kept Jon a secret, so when Howland sent his two whelps to Winterfell he assumed Neds descendants would know. But alas Ned was tight with his secrets and probably the only he told was the Old Gods and the weirwood.

What does this mean? Jojen and Meera could possibly know about Jons parentage. So theres a possible source for the big reveal.

 

[Boaz]

Mayhaps Meera and Jojen know who Jon is. That's definitely another way to look at fire and ice... no one was there to hear the message. Mayhaps Howland told his children, mayhaps Jojen saw it.

What if Howland named Jojen after Jon? What if Howland raised his kids with no other purpose than to help the Stark kids, especially Jon?

Mayhaps Jojen knows all about Jon...

 

[Tysha]

I think maybe Tysha that the line about Jon (blue flower, wall of ice, sweetness) is more like describing the fact that he is in full "bloom" as it were at a time when the Others are descending upon the north.

Yep, that better but you killed the romance!

Jojen and Meera could possibly know
about Jons parentage. So theres a possible source for the big reveal .

Oh I like this one!

mayhaps Jojen saw it.

And this one.

We swear it by ice and fire - never thought that's important.. only now I'm fully (?) understand what Boaz and Aegon mean. Speculations but very interesting and cool

 

[TK-421]

Yes, I do think that Jojen and Meera know about Jon. Know that you revealed that to us, there is a secret code but if Luwin knew, he would of told Bran. He knew Bran's sight was further than most normal men (3-eyed crow...) and could have kept the secret, especially as lord of Winterfell in Robb's absence.

One thing struck my from you post Boaz and I know it's also something that has been speculated elsewhere: That Lyanna and Rheagar were legally married. That would mean Jon is no true ******* after all. Apart from deflating my theory that due to the overaching theme about bastards and how they are treated and that a ******* (i.e. Jon) will sit on the Iron Throne, how could they have been legally married? The timelines don't fit since Rheager was already married to his Dornish princess and had two (as Aegon put it) whelps by her. Unless, he being already married was not a problem for marrying again and the fact this was a secret wedding since Rheagar did not want to dishonour Lyanna after he got her knocked up. But, I do not recall multiple marriages being a norm for Targs or the other noble houses.