Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's -- JANUARY 2008

[Erin99]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Wow, I hope that's true. I've been working for over five years on my world and my novel, and I've paid out for my manuscript to be edited (which is no mean feat when you have hardly any money), and I'd like to think that, with every day I spend on it, and with every redraft I've done and will do, my work is improving.


Of course, as you, John, and most other professionals say, it's also about luck and timing.

 

[Sephiroth]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

That is brilliant to hear you say, Teresa, because it is what I hoped might be the case, but from the outside one can never be sure. I'm still in the process of producing something I think is good enough. I've always believed that if I can finish something and be satisfied with it, it will have a reasonable chance of success. If I believed that the odds were almost impossibly stacked against me, I wouldn't have that hope, and I don't think I could do it.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

If I believed that the odds were almost impossibly stacked against me, I wouldn't have that hope, and I don't think I could do it.

This is why I get so worked up and am inclined to go into long rants when I see people trying to infect other writers with their own negativity.

Mind you, I think it's just as bad when someone looks at something that is utter rubbish and in an effort to be encouraging says, "Oh, this has wonderful potential. I want to see more." It sets up unrealistic expectations and actually impedes a writer's improvement. Sensible, constructive criticism is, in the end, so much kinder. (Although I have made myself very unpopular in certain quarters for saying so.)

 

[Sephiroth]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Well, I agree with you. For all that I don't speak from any position of 'authority', I make it a point only to critique things I think show genuine potential, and I give my honest opinion of any flaws therein. And I expect the same honesty from people when they read my work. I'm not fishing for compliments, after all, but trying to improve. If people read it and think it stinks, I need to know why.

And of course, I need to believe I have the ability to improve it, subsequently.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

I have occasionally met people of such spectacular density that I've despaired of their ability to improve. It doesn't happen very often, and even there I may be wrong.

But as for writers who are self-critical and who are able to take constructive criticism from others, they don't fall into that category. In their case, I think there is always the ability to improve.

I have to believe that, because I'm always trying to improve my own writing. If I thought this was the best I'll ever be, that would be very disappointing.

 

[Erin99]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

But as for writers who are self-critical and who are able to take constructive criticism from others, they don't fall into that category. In their case, I think there is always the ability to improve.

That's what agents and editors are looking for as well: potential clients who show determination and have the temperament to make necessary changes when asked. I suppose it must be an editors nightmare, to come across an author who refuses to do ANY edits/rewrites simply because they think their work's good enough already.

That said, I read somewhere that agents and editors are also looking for authors who can put there foot down when they need to, since it is the writer's story and they know how everything will pad out. I suppose it's an organic process, and once you find the right editor and agent, they will each discuss your manuscript at length.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

With all the editors I've ever worked with, when they find a problem they simply say "fix this," and leave me to deal with it in my own way.

So you're quite right. They're looking for writers who are professional and cooperative, but a good editor also respects the individual writer's creative process. Plus, quite frankly, they don't have the time to do your work for you. The days when the acquiring editor went through a manuscript with a blue pencil, acting almost as the writer's collaborator, are long past.

 

[Erin99]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

With all the editors I've ever worked with, when they find a problem they simply say "fix this," and leave me to deal with it in my own way.

I like that idea. They trust the writer to understand the fault and fix it, leaving them free to get on with their business, and the writer to improve.

 

[Sephiroth]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

It's hugely relieving, if you ask me. I'd much rather do what needs doing myself.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Sometimes you have to watch out for the copy editor, though, if they're just out of college and think they are God's gift to literature.

But the CE you can usually overrule with a minimum of fuss.

Most of the copy editors I've dealt with have been very good at their jobs (I did have some issues with the last one) and my two best friends have done copy editing, so I consider them by-and-large a noble breed, but I have heard of writers who have had such bad experiences they had rubber stamps made with the word "stet" (which, for those who don't know, means "leave it the way I had it"), to save them the trouble of writing it over and over and over. The problem with that is, if you stamp it in ink, you can't erase it later when you cool down.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Entry #4

And now the piece on Originality with which I've been threatening you. The part on style seems appropriate just at this time, in light of certain discussions in another thread:

http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/41605-some-musings-on-originality-and-style.html#post951518

These are just my ideas on the subject, however. Feel free, anyone who reads it, to come back here and strenuously object to anything I say. (You probably won't shake me from my opinion -- I am old and fixed in my ways -- but I'm interested to hear other people's ideas anyway.)

 

[JDP]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Every draft I wrote, after the first two or three, I thought: This will be the second to last.

Once again, you're bringing hope to the masses, Teresa (well, to one of them); I just keep redrafting. I often have interested parties saying 'Where are you now? But I thought the last draft was the final draft?'. I'm happy that my editting/reworking is still adding value to the novel, so I'm content keeping at it (making time is hard, though).

I'm not fishing for compliments, after all, but trying to improve. If people read it and think it stinks, I need to know why.

Definitely, Sephiroth, I agree. I think the worst reaction you can get from a test reader is a polite smile followed by, 'It's wonderful - I wouldn't change a thing.' There's not much you can actually do with a positive critique, unless there's some negative in there too (and the more the better); if you can change all the stuff readers don't like into stuff they do like, without damaging the parts they liked straight off, you've got a pretty good novel on your hands.

P.S. Sorry, everyone, I seem to be constantly one entry behind with my comments!

 

[Strife]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Hi

my sister is reading one of your books.

is it for girls only or can i enjoy it too? I am 15-year-old boy. Sorry seems a silly question but your the author, you would know. i cant ask her, she'd make fun o me.

(she's loving it, btw)

Can i enter the contest for her (or maybe for me, if i can read your books)

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Actually, some of my most loyal readers are men, Strife. The main characters who are male and the main characters who are female usually get about equal time in each of my books. I don't write for any specific age or sex. (Occasionally I do hear from a male reader that they would like more blood and gore. There I have to disappoint them. It only goes in where I think it's necessary to the plot.)

I'll enter you in the drawing, and if you win, you and your sister can decide between you whether it's something you want to read. Which book is she reading now?



JDP, you can comment on anything in this thread at anytime.

I think the worst reaction you can get from a test reader is a polite smile followed by, 'It's wonderful - I wouldn't change a thing.'

My husband, who is my first reader simply because he's conveniently on hand, always limits his asssessment to, "Good. Where's the rest?" Occasionally he'll point out a typo, or ask me a question, or make a prediction about what is going to happen. So I never know if he's just being tactful because he has to live with me. Not until a few years later when he rereads the book. Then I figure, if he's reading it again he must have liked it. Too late for me to make any changes if he didn't.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Due to all the time the site was down today -- and the other night as well -- I think it's only fair to extend the deadline for the drawing another day, until Friday Midnight GMT.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

The time has come, the drawing is closed, and I've pulled three names.

Giovanna, Sephiroth, and Strife: If you will PM me a mailing address, I will post you a book.

 

[Giovanna Clairval]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Wow!

Today is a wonderful day! Wonderful things keep happening to me.

THANK YOU, TERESA!

 

[Sephiroth]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Ooh, fantastic! This has cheered me up!




Thank you, Teresa. I'm really looking forward to reading it.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

Well, I hope you each enjoy it.

I'll let you know when I've posted the books.

 

[Strife]

Re: Rumblings (and Ramblings) at Madeline's Place -- And a Contest

it has been a horrible day until NOW

i have become a smilie myself

thank you ma'am

and the book my sister is reading is

GOBLIN MOON