Moonbat said:
The best evil villains are those with just a hint of grey to relieve the unrelenting blackness, or those that reveal a spark of humanity at the end...Darth Vader being a good example....
What is the Nature of Evil?
- Thread starter huscarl
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The best evil villains are those with just a hint of grey to relieve the unrelenting blackness, or those that reveal a spark of humanity at the end...Darth Vader being a good example....
Nature itself isn't evil, but nor is it good. Good and evil are things people do; specifically when they know they shouldn't do something and do it anyway. A person that tries to do good and uknowingly does evil hasn't done evil (though the results are tragic, and people may call him or her evil, and if he could reasonably be expected to have foreseen the consequences, he's guilty of negligence), and the person that harms another, but with unexpected good consequences, hasn't done good (he can't be called a hero).
Shakespeare said it well, when he said: "There is nothing good or ill, but thinking makes it so." (I'm paraphrasing) This at first seems like a statement of moral relativity, but it's rather ambiguous, because it also means that good and evil are properties of the mind.
Anyway, my 2c.
Shakespeare said it well, when he said: "There is nothing good or ill, but thinking makes it so." (I'm paraphrasing) This at first seems like a statement of moral relativity, but it's rather ambiguous, because it also means that good and evil are properties of the mind.
Anyway, my 2c.
fire_elf20
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I have discovered that all human evil comes from this, man's being unable to sit still in a room.
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings.
It is always good men who do the most harm in the world.
No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.
I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth.
Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all -- the apathy of human beings.
It is always good men who do the most harm in the world.
No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks.
I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth.
Karn Maeshalanadae
I'm a pineapple
The road to Hell being paved with the best of intentions? Personally I think evil is a conscious choice, darkness for the sake of darkness, from those who find goodness to be a sign of weakness. It's sick and twisted, but that's the way I view the subject.
Hello Huscarl,
You raise a very interesting question. In the story I'm currently working on, I started it as part of a challenge my husband gave me to write a story based on a shaman/shamanism. So, accordingly, the "evil" my heroine deals with is a mixture of the supernatural (gods and demons) and human moral evil (she runs into some pretty unsavory and even demented types). But getting back to your question, I think I understand what you're getting at, and I actually think one of the people to capture "the substance of evil" in literature was Shakespeare (e.g., Macbeth). There is something unsettling about the primordial evil you spoke of, that is dark, faceless, and can only be detected through the raw fear or even revulsion we experience when in its presence. This fear, not for one's physical safety or well-being, but an actual psychological or moral terror, I think, depicts this "primordial evil" or "substance of evil." So maybe the evil in your story could be of this type? Or at least have this characteristic?
I hope you can glean something from my rambling!
You raise a very interesting question. In the story I'm currently working on, I started it as part of a challenge my husband gave me to write a story based on a shaman/shamanism. So, accordingly, the "evil" my heroine deals with is a mixture of the supernatural (gods and demons) and human moral evil (she runs into some pretty unsavory and even demented types). But getting back to your question, I think I understand what you're getting at, and I actually think one of the people to capture "the substance of evil" in literature was Shakespeare (e.g., Macbeth). There is something unsettling about the primordial evil you spoke of, that is dark, faceless, and can only be detected through the raw fear or even revulsion we experience when in its presence. This fear, not for one's physical safety or well-being, but an actual psychological or moral terror, I think, depicts this "primordial evil" or "substance of evil." So maybe the evil in your story could be of this type? Or at least have this characteristic?
I hope you can glean something from my rambling!
TorrnT
purveyor of tall tales
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What is the nature of evil?, this is the staple of the fantasy writer.
Every one has their own ideas.
Evil really only applies to the holy.
Those of non holy or religious denomination don't believe in evil nor should they as you can't have evil without its opposing force if you want to keep your world balanced.
(star wars, the dark side needed the force and vice versa)
Evil from the bible or any holy books, writings etc, is what tempts man to err (what ever the degree lies/murder) and stray from the holy teachings (what ever they may be).
Those whom choose not to believe in the biblical good and evil can consider immoral things to be evil.
classic evil is a sentient mixture of chaos and destruction.
Modern evil verges on the psychotic. (you cant have the being too psychotic or you will lose the essence of evil and drowned the character in madness).
Also remember evil is traditionally all about power, Evils motto "to much is never enough" and the boundaries people are prepared to cross to obtain that power, be it from a simple adrenal rush to conquering the world.
Greed is the staple of evil.
Lastly, dont be afraid to customise the stereo typical evil types, (only a genius can go against the grain and pull off an evil type that is not stereo typical) people appreasiate an intresting stereo type than a bland conception of evil
Every one has their own ideas.
Evil really only applies to the holy.
Those of non holy or religious denomination don't believe in evil nor should they as you can't have evil without its opposing force if you want to keep your world balanced.
(star wars, the dark side needed the force and vice versa)
Evil from the bible or any holy books, writings etc, is what tempts man to err (what ever the degree lies/murder) and stray from the holy teachings (what ever they may be).
Those whom choose not to believe in the biblical good and evil can consider immoral things to be evil.
classic evil is a sentient mixture of chaos and destruction.
Modern evil verges on the psychotic. (you cant have the being too psychotic or you will lose the essence of evil and drowned the character in madness).
Also remember evil is traditionally all about power, Evils motto "to much is never enough" and the boundaries people are prepared to cross to obtain that power, be it from a simple adrenal rush to conquering the world.
Greed is the staple of evil.
Lastly, dont be afraid to customise the stereo typical evil types, (only a genius can go against the grain and pull off an evil type that is not stereo typical) people appreasiate an intresting stereo type than a bland conception of evil
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Evil is rather difficult to define.
Conflicts in fiction and reality happened because two people has opposing goals. and Fiction just happened to categorise these two opposing forces as antagonists and protagonists as well as good and evil. When in fact, both are neither evil nor good or some cause both are good or both are evil.
Conflicts in fiction and reality happened because two people has opposing goals. and Fiction just happened to categorise these two opposing forces as antagonists and protagonists as well as good and evil. When in fact, both are neither evil nor good or some cause both are good or both are evil.
TorrnT
purveyor of tall tales
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Actually evil is much like beauty, in the fact that it belongs to the eye of the beholder.
But like i said before, evil belongs in the realm of the religion.
Loki, Satan, Set etc.
Once you leave religion behind then you leave evil behind.
Scenario: A man murders many for his own amusement.
A religious man would call him evil.
A scientist would call him demented.
Evil served its purpose during a period when we were less educated as a species, but has been elaborated on and expounded by story tellers to encompass many things unto the boundaries have become blurred.
For those that keep saying there is no such thing as evil, that is fine.
But useless as an answer to the question "What is the Nature of Evil"?
Evil has no set nature, but it does boil down to an unsavory recipe.
(cue puns)
But like i said before, evil belongs in the realm of the religion.
Loki, Satan, Set etc.
Once you leave religion behind then you leave evil behind.
Scenario: A man murders many for his own amusement.
A religious man would call him evil.
A scientist would call him demented.
Evil served its purpose during a period when we were less educated as a species, but has been elaborated on and expounded by story tellers to encompass many things unto the boundaries have become blurred.
For those that keep saying there is no such thing as evil, that is fine.
But useless as an answer to the question "What is the Nature of Evil"?
Evil has no set nature, but it does boil down to an unsavory recipe.
(cue puns)
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Laerten
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I just try to stick to the premise that an 'evil' person will have some measure of 'good' locked away inside and vice versa. I usually think it is a bit unbelievable when a character is portrayed as completely good or evil. This could only really apply to a God in books.
The 'evil' characters in my book are all out for revenge because of something that happened to their ancestors. I find it easier to take a trait such as jealousy, dislike or revenge and twist it to become the motivating force for a character that takes over their whole life.
The 'evil' characters in my book are all out for revenge because of something that happened to their ancestors. I find it easier to take a trait such as jealousy, dislike or revenge and twist it to become the motivating force for a character that takes over their whole life.
The Pelagic Argosy
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Amen. I think there's one thing that can be said of all villains, both fictional and historical: they have all been busybodies. Not one of them was a slacker. "M'eh. I could conquer the world. But I'm just not feeling motivated today."
I must be a very good person.
Ground Cinnamon
I will write
I'm a new member, and this is my first post. Couldn't resist the question.
Wow, so many "good" thoughts.
I don't think evil is a mesurable quantity in itself, but rather the absence of the quantity of good in an action, person, etc. Evil is thus not an equal opposite, but rather the sad absence of goodness. Goodness is everything from being kind and loving, to beauty, joy, intelegence, health, or energy. Good is when things are "right." So, evil is always the twisting or perverting of what is good, not a force in and of itself. For someone to be completely evil, they would have to have no friends, no honor, no health, no strength, no joy. Few evil characters take it to that extreme, though it would almost be comical to see one try.
I do think everyone has some evil in them simply because no one is perfect in their goodness. But it is good to try to end evil in all it's forms.
I don't think good and evil are always relative. Some things are simply wrong and some are simply right.
Our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs often lead us into evil. I have a had time with the insanity as evil idea because even guilt can be over ridden if we "feel" or "believe" strongly enough. In fact, I think evil people rarely realize that they are evil! It's very easy to close your eyes to goodness when you "believe" or "feel" your protecting yourself or those you love. I think the main measuring stick is, as one wise man said, "do to others as you would have them do to you." And really, that takes a lot of work. The principle is realizing what is for the good of all, and to do that you have to deeply know and accept others.
The characters in the stories I'm working on are always changing that quantity of good by the power of their choices. Evil is an easy, downward movement, while good is a difficult process of admitting your faults and trying to change them, idealy with the help of others. It's like the baby that was brought up earlier: we are predisposed towards our own interests and we have to be disciplined and taught by ourselves or others to be good.
Last of all, I think there must be, in a story or in real life, a higher power which IS completely good, encompassing all creativity, beauty, joy, power, satisfaction, etc. It would have to be all knowing because only an all knowing being could see all results and outcomes to know if an outcome is completely good or not. I think that without at least the belief in such a being, our entire existance would end up being relative and meaningless and we would have no measuring stick for existance aside from our own, horribly flawed selves.
So, the evil power behind everything in my stories, is simply a powerful, but created, entity, who has rebelled against... well... goodness, which was the nature of its creator. Yet he will only be in the far background.
And that just opens up another whole can of worms, but hopefully it was helpful!
Darn it... I ment for that to be a SHORT response. Sorry about that.
Wow, so many "good" thoughts.
I don't think evil is a mesurable quantity in itself, but rather the absence of the quantity of good in an action, person, etc. Evil is thus not an equal opposite, but rather the sad absence of goodness. Goodness is everything from being kind and loving, to beauty, joy, intelegence, health, or energy. Good is when things are "right." So, evil is always the twisting or perverting of what is good, not a force in and of itself. For someone to be completely evil, they would have to have no friends, no honor, no health, no strength, no joy. Few evil characters take it to that extreme, though it would almost be comical to see one try.
I do think everyone has some evil in them simply because no one is perfect in their goodness. But it is good to try to end evil in all it's forms.
I don't think good and evil are always relative. Some things are simply wrong and some are simply right.
Our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs often lead us into evil. I have a had time with the insanity as evil idea because even guilt can be over ridden if we "feel" or "believe" strongly enough. In fact, I think evil people rarely realize that they are evil! It's very easy to close your eyes to goodness when you "believe" or "feel" your protecting yourself or those you love. I think the main measuring stick is, as one wise man said, "do to others as you would have them do to you." And really, that takes a lot of work. The principle is realizing what is for the good of all, and to do that you have to deeply know and accept others.
The characters in the stories I'm working on are always changing that quantity of good by the power of their choices. Evil is an easy, downward movement, while good is a difficult process of admitting your faults and trying to change them, idealy with the help of others. It's like the baby that was brought up earlier: we are predisposed towards our own interests and we have to be disciplined and taught by ourselves or others to be good.
Last of all, I think there must be, in a story or in real life, a higher power which IS completely good, encompassing all creativity, beauty, joy, power, satisfaction, etc. It would have to be all knowing because only an all knowing being could see all results and outcomes to know if an outcome is completely good or not. I think that without at least the belief in such a being, our entire existance would end up being relative and meaningless and we would have no measuring stick for existance aside from our own, horribly flawed selves.
So, the evil power behind everything in my stories, is simply a powerful, but created, entity, who has rebelled against... well... goodness, which was the nature of its creator. Yet he will only be in the far background.
And that just opens up another whole can of worms, but hopefully it was helpful!
Darn it... I ment for that to be a SHORT response. Sorry about that.
Ground Cinnamon
I will write
Oops, somehow I double posted. Sorry about that. Admins, please feel free to remove!
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Laerten
Aspiring Writer
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Watching my Husband playing a war game on his PS3, quotes kept popping up on the screen when he died, the best one was:
"GOOD AND EVIL ARE INHERENTLY NEUTRAL, IT IS WHAT WE DO WITH THEM THAT MAKES THEM GOOD OR EVIL"
I thought this answered my thoughts about this subject perfectly.
"GOOD AND EVIL ARE INHERENTLY NEUTRAL, IT IS WHAT WE DO WITH THEM THAT MAKES THEM GOOD OR EVIL"
I thought this answered my thoughts about this subject perfectly.
Mammon
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My bet is that people that are defined evil by others, would not define themselves evil. They might acctually think they are doing good. Look at the most evil persons in the world: Osama Bin Laden or Hitler. Osama thinks he is doing good by doing gods will and 'spreading' his word. Hitler thought he was doing good by expanding a nation for the aryan and killing the jews.
glandowski
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To me 'evil' is nothing more than knowing it is wrong and choosing to do it anyway. Even in every day life 'evil' can become a necessary... uh, yeah.
Cheers
Cheers
TorrnT
purveyor of tall tales
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What is the nature of evil?.
Evil is propaganda created by religion to explain short-Comings in human nature and help propagate their teachings on how to avoid hell.
(At least that is what it is now in the 21st century)
(you must remember they did not have psychologists 2,000 years ago so they can be forgiven)
So...a child that knows it is wrong to steal and is hungry, are they a committing a necessary evil? or are they doing what is right in order to survive based on instinct.
To say someone is evil, is to suggest he/she was motivated by and external force, most notably a devil, demon, spirit or Satan himself, opposed to an internal motivation, like mental health issues or self motivation where the act promotes notoriety or survival to name but a few.
Evil is propaganda created by religion to explain short-Comings in human nature and help propagate their teachings on how to avoid hell.
(At least that is what it is now in the 21st century)
(you must remember they did not have psychologists 2,000 years ago so they can be forgiven)
You are using the word "evil" very loosely.
So...a child that knows it is wrong to steal and is hungry, are they a committing a necessary evil? or are they doing what is right in order to survive based on instinct.
To say someone is evil, is to suggest he/she was motivated by and external force, most notably a devil, demon, spirit or Satan himself, opposed to an internal motivation, like mental health issues or self motivation where the act promotes notoriety or survival to name but a few.
daisybee
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Lots of debate about evil eh?
My two pence worth:
The concept of evil is an excuse man gave himself to describe any or all things outside societies strict set of acceptable norms.
We coined the terms; we apply them as seen fit.
The more extreme the crime/behaviour the more vocal we are about labelling it, to dissasociate ourselves as a species from the person/persons guilty of it.
Because we just don't like admitting that man is a flawed design, and poeple are capable of enormous cruelty, and of unspeakable acts, whilst being one of us.
I think the Big Bad as it were, is part of us all, some take that route, others don't.
My two pence worth:
The concept of evil is an excuse man gave himself to describe any or all things outside societies strict set of acceptable norms.
We coined the terms; we apply them as seen fit.
The more extreme the crime/behaviour the more vocal we are about labelling it, to dissasociate ourselves as a species from the person/persons guilty of it.
Because we just don't like admitting that man is a flawed design, and poeple are capable of enormous cruelty, and of unspeakable acts, whilst being one of us.
I think the Big Bad as it were, is part of us all, some take that route, others don't.
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