Progress on A Storm of Swords

[Marvolo]

Well, the Red Wedding was incredible. At least I have the comfort of knowing that Joffrey will die if Stannis's sorcery continues to work.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

So why would the Martells come to visit at the worst possible time, there was bad blood yet between the families. So perheps Tyrion was special.

I believe, and I cant look it up so its gonna have to be an I believe comment....Joanna Lannister and The Martell Mother (whose name also escapes me) were friends at one time. Handmaidens to someone specific together if I do recall. The passage is very specific about the Martells desire to wed Oberyn to Cersei and Jaime to Elia.....

In fact Oberyn later tells a story of a Targ empowered overseer who toured the Dornishlands and was staying the night at a castle when he pulled the bellpull and a host of vipers fell through the canopy onto his person....he then says this....and Im going to paraphrase....

"My dear dwarf, I would rather have the scorpions fall on me than your sister in all her naked glory"

 

[Boaz]

Marv, you're using the old noggin now.

viz, no one has put forth any interest in the idea that Tyrion is a closet Targ, except me. And I just spent the last forty-five minutes looking for my posts hypothesizing this to no avail. Maybe Egg or someone could find it... and if they cannot find it, I'll give a summary here soon.

I also proposed that Varys might be a Targaryen in Varys' - why?

In addition to Tyraen Targaryen and Vaerys Targaryen, I've jokingly proposed Pytaer Baelish, Shaerys (Shae) Targaryen, Samwaell Targaryen, and maybe more... if any of these makes sense to you, then by all means develop a hypothesis.

You can find many links to R+L=J in my post on page six of The Dragon has Three Heads. And on pages 11-14 you'll find a very lively discussion of baby Aegon and the Sphinx.

Everyone needs a conspiracy theory is also a good thread.

Egg is correct. Mellario of Norvos and Joanna (Lannister) were both ladies in waiting at KL.

 

[viZion]

I did end up finding a bunch of posts where you mention the Tyraen theory but could never find the origin post of the theory. I think the gist of it is that Joanna hooked up with Rhaegar while in King's Landing? If the theory is true, does Tywin know or suspect? By all accounts, Rhaegar seems to be a pretty stand up guy. Even Eddard thinks so. I think from what little I know of your theory, the biggest opposition would be that it may not be in Rhaegar's character to go sleeping with every lady in court. To be honest though, Tyrion as a Targaryen ******* sounds like a pretty cool idea. I wouldn't mind if it were true.

 

[Marvolo]

Rhaegar was a stand up guy for the most part. But one stupid mistake collapsed a kingdom.

 

[Boaz]

viz, my idea is not even a theory, there is not one shred of evidence to back it up. Because of this, no one can disprove it either!

Basically, Aerys the mad king raped Joanna while Tywin was off on a business trip. Joanna knowing that Tywin would never allow such an affront to go unchallenged decided no to tell Tywin because House Lannister would have been obliterated in a confrontation with the throne. Joanna died in childbirth or the complications thereof and, Jaime slew Aerys, and the Kingsguard are all dead and so the secret has been buried, except for Barristan and Varys.

It's pure speculation, but here's what makes me think it's true. 1) Aerys raped his own wife. When Jaime started to protest to the White Bull, Hightower shut him down by saying that teh Kingsguard never stopped the king from anything. 2) Tywin told Tyrion that he doubted if he were his son. 3) The myth in Westeros is that bastards are malformed and grotesque. 4) Tyrion told Jon that all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes. 5) Tyrion is fascinated with drgons. 6) Tyrion defended KL with House Targaryen's own champion... fire. 7) Maester Aemon called Tyrion a giant among men. 8) Tyrion and Jon became good friends, not as Stark and Lannister, but because both are Targ bastards. 9) Dany will need two other Targaryens to help her rule. Aegon is a possibility if he's alive. But like Dany, Jon and Tyrion have experience leading and ruling. 10) I wish it to be true.

Though I do confess that Genna told Jaime tha Tyrion, because of his mannerisms and brains, is Tywin's true son.

Lubbock, why did you say that Tyrion may be a Targ *******? I'd love to hear different reasons than my own.

After sufficiently hijacking Marv's thread, I'll try to respond correctly...

Rhaegar was a stand up guy for the most part. But one stupid mistake collapsed a kingdom.

Sounds like Eddard.

If you don't mind a theory that might be a spoiler, then highlight the rest of the text.

Many posters think that Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped or at the least that Lyanna willingly went with Rhaegar to bear his child. Meera's stories lend credibility to this.

 

[Shacklock]

Spoiler:






Yea so I'm re-re-reading (xD) Storm of Swords: Blood and Gold and I noticed the whole Stannis and the Leaches part. Is it coincience that all three Kings he names die soon after? Fair enough with Joffrey and Robb you could say their death's were already pre-planned by others, but Balor's death was preeetty suspicious, sounds like the work of one of Melisndre's shadows. After all, how could his son who was half a world away manage to do it.
Just some random thoughts.

 

[Boaz]

Shack, did they divide ASOS in England? Is that what you mean by Black and Gold?

One of Mel's shadow is a good guess, but Renly and Cortnay Penrose were in close proximity to Mel when they died. Joff and Robb did not die from shadows and they were a lot closer to Dragonstone, geographically speaking, than Balon. I think burning the leeches means that she does not have to do it herself...

 

[The Curious Orange]

Yeah, ASOS was 1 volume in hardback, but 2 in paperback - "Steel and Snow" and "Blood and Gold" - silly titles if ever I heard them.

 

[YOSSARIAN]

Balon Greyjoy was killed by a Faceless Man. The ancient prophet woman that consults with Beric's crew spoke of a kraken who falls from a bridge while a man without a face looks on. She also had a prophecy for Robb's death-I forget the way she phrased it but it was accurate in its details. She also spoke of a scared maid in purple whose hair was snakes with venom dripping from their fangs, which is the accurate description of someone else's demise (I don't want to say whose death it is in case Marvolo hasn't gotten to that scene.) We don't witness Balon's death, but the woman's prophecies are spot-on for all the events that the reader does witness-so we can conclude that Balon was indeed assassinated by a Faceless Man (most likely at the bidding of -SPOILER NAME-, not Melisandre.

 

[TK-421]

WHA???? How TF did I miss that one? Why would a Faceless Man want to kill Balon? Are they truly attempting to destabilize everything?

 

[Boaz]

TK, It cannot be coincidence that Balon died one night and the next day Euron sailed home. My feeling is that he was persona non grata... yet he showed up the morning after the King died. Incredible timing.

 

[TK-421]

Well, yes, I suppose you are right and Euron is enough of a sliperry eel to do such a thing. But, I admit that wasn't the first thing that jumped to my mind but rather a theory that has been ventilated here some time ago that the Faceless Men are working for a secret society of sorts that is trying to destabilize all of Westeros. Naturally, the reasons why were hotly contested.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

But what if it was Lady Ms leech-magic that gave all the murderers (Euron, Tyrion or Petyr or Olenna and Lord Frey) the wherewithal to enact their particular plans....

Wheels within wheels....

 

[Lubbock]

I just ran into another passage that points to Tyrion being a Targ.

Jon is chatting with Ygritte.
Page 599 in A Storm of Swords :Steel and Snow

Jon Snow "No he Thought, The Wall protects the realm. From the others.....and from you and your kind as well. Sweetling.
Ygritte "I had another friend of mine who dreamed of Dragons. A Dwarf. he told me....."

 

[Marvolo]

I finished it about forty five minutes ago. Wow, Littlefinger with the comeback finish. So really this entire story has been about events that started with Littlefinger (the murder of Jon Arryn) and are driven by him in large parts (the death of Ned, Lysa, and Joff). I'm impressed and I dislike Littlefinger more than ever. I understand him a little, but dislike him all the same. Lord of Harrenhal and the Eyrie and Vale...

I can't pick a favorite viewpoint character in this one. Tyrion was a clear winner with the last book. But Bran and Arya had awesome storylines and Jaime was incredibly interesting. GRRM beat the first two books, easily.

 

[The Curious Orange]

Yeah, it took me about two days to pick my jaw up off the floor when I finished reading it. You hit the last chapter, with Sansa playing in the snow, and think it's going to be a nice, serene little epilogue to catch your breath after all that death and bloodshed, and then...



Simply the best fantasy book I've ever read.

 

[Boaz]

TK, I don't equate the Faceless Men to the Illuminati. I don't think they have a political agenda. I think the Faceless Men are hired for one job at a time.

Lubbock, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the forums.

Your destiny lies with me Lubbock. Aegon knew this to be true.

 

[viZion]

Think it's just a coincidence that Lord Frey send Lame Lothar Frey and Walder Rivers ("a cripple and a *******") back to Robb with his answer to Robb's new proposal? After the Red Wedding, Robb's heirs are Bran (a cripple, presumed dead but we know he's not) and Jon (a *******, possibly legitimized by Robb). I don't mean that Lord Frey was thinking this but rather that GRRM wrote it this way on purpose and not just as a way for the Lord Walder to insult Robb like it says in the book. Am I looking to deep for foreshadowing connections?

 

[MIDNIGHT]

Think it's just a coincidence that Lord Frey send Lame Lothar Frey and Walder Rivers ("a cripple and a *******") back to Robb with his answer to Robb's new proposal? After the Red Wedding, Robb's heirs are Bran (a cripple, presumed dead but we know he's not) and Jon (a *******, possibly legitimized by Robb). I don't mean that Lord Frey was thinking this but rather that GRRM wrote it this way on purpose and not just as a way for the Lord Walder to insult Robb like it says in the book. Am I looking to deep for foreshadowing connections?

Nice viZ !! Nah, you can never look to deep for foreshadowing connections. I never would have noticed the ******* and the cripple as an insult. Great catch.